Ecclestone says Monaco could be dropped

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

"No time to discuss this as a committee"

seriously Monaco can afford to pay and history aside they should pay. not just for right to continue their tradition and history (which provides it incredibly lucrative tourism revenues) but also for the benefit of all the other tracks that are indirectly subsidizing it.

What are they indirectly subsidising? It costs the poison dwarf very little in the grand scheme of things - OK, there's the TV production (but he gets paid for that), but he doesn't provide the stands, armco etc. The teams, maybe. But not Bernie and his parasitical venture capitalist organ grinders.

Also, with my proposed committee (based on bjohnsonsmith's proposals) to run thing, with more thought I would add a representative for each non-racing engine supplier, one representing the Big Six races and one representing the rest of the races and one for the tyre supplier. And the only 100 year contract would be for the Monaco GP

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Also, with my proposed committee (based on bjohnsonsmith's proposals) to run thing, with more thought I would add a representative for each non-racing engine supplier, one representing the Big Six races and one representing the rest of the races and one for the tyre supplier. And the only 100 year contract would be for the Monaco GP

I think you might want to have fewer representatives, as it could get unwieldy. The idea of a track rep is good but I'm not sure about engine suppliers; getting into F1 is a risk they themselves have ventured into.

[Sodemo]

Hah, I hope that Monaco tell Bernie where to shove it.

[duke_toaster]

They did that with the WRC and that didn't work too well.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

They did that with the WRC and that didn't work too well.

The ACO successfully broke away from the FIA.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

What are they indirectly subsidising? It costs the poison dwarf very little in the grand scheme of things - OK, there's the TV production (but he gets paid for that), but he doesn't provide the stands, armco etc. The teams, maybe. But not Bernie and his parasitical venture capitalist organ grinders.

the article starting this thread made the point that the only way for BE to get more money is to have more races. since that number may be capped the alternative is for the existing races to pay more. now if Monaco is not paying anything, then it follows the other races (including other historic venues) will have to pay more to offset this hence subsidize Monaco. but really i was just suggesting that one of the richest countries in the world (maybe not total GDP but per capita) can afford it.

anyways you make it sound like BE is in charge of a pharmaceutical selling AIDS medication in Africa. this is a wealthy nation being held to task during negotiations because they have money...whats the problem here?

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Also, with my proposed committee (based on bjohnsonsmith's proposals) to run thing, with more thought I would add a representative for each non-racing engine supplier, one representing the Big Six races and one representing the rest of the races and one for the tyre supplier. And the only 100 year contract would be for the Monaco GP

well since you have representatives from the 6 biggest races (i think if you named them for us you would come pretty close to naming 6 of 8 G8 members), representatives of the auto industry and i think you forgot big oil since without them the race cars dont get very far and you are pretty close to building your very own venture capitalist organ grinder. success, no need for Bernie then

[johntt]

Really? The IRC now has the Monte and its arguably a better event for it.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

the article starting this thread made the point that the only way for BE to get more money is to have more races. since that number may be capped the alternative is for the existing races to pay more. now if Monaco is not paying anything, then it follows the other races (including other historic venues) will have to pay more to offset this hence subsidize Monaco. but really i was just suggesting that one of the richest countries in the world (maybe not total GDP but per capita) can afford it.

The argument that other countries will have to pay more if Monaco don't pay their share might have some sense in it if Bernie and CVC were operating a normal business with a normal business model but they are not. The business model in each country is to find out how high a fee will result in the other party pulling out of the deal and then to charge $1 less, as many have said this is the business model of an extortionist, not a businessman, a businessman understands that both sides should gain from the deal. As long as Bernie and CVC operate in this way it doesn't matter how much or little Monaco may contribute it will not reduce the fees paid for the other races by one cent.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

well since you have representatives from the 6 biggest races (i think if you named them for us you would come pretty close to naming 6 of 8 G8 members),

GB, Monaco, Germany, France (not currently on the schedule), Italy, Belgium. Four G8 members.

[chillibowl]

what no Canadian representative!!! you should be more in fear of Japanese outrage than from canadian outrage but i'm outraged nonetheless

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

...The business model in each country is to find out how high a fee will result in the other party pulling out of the deal and then to charge $1 less...

in fairness most global companies charge different prices in different countries be it for a can of coke, a big mac meal, to cars etc etc. but i take your point perhaps FOM is looking outside that model and negotiating based solely out of greed. although i dont see BE as particularly ruthless as compared to any of the other billionaire business people out there.

to be honest i dont think that Monaco paying their fair share will reduce fees for others as well, but at the same time i dont think that excuses them from paying at all.

[Wims]

Originally Posted by F.O.F.

Bernie doesn't just bite the hand that feeds him, he eats the whole damn thing, as a starter. Or at least he says he will. Just posturing me thinks...

CVC is the hand that feeds him. I do think its just posturing tho, a way to get the upper hand when negotiations starts.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

in fairness most global companies charge different prices in different countries be it for a can of coke, a big mac meal, to cars etc etc. but i take your point perhaps FOM is looking outside that model and negotiating based solely out of greed. although i dont see BE as particularly ruthless as compared to any of the other billionaire business people out there.

I don't know about that. If you don't play by the Extortionist's rules you've more or less had it. Look at the Donington fiasco. Because Silverstone wouldn't bow to Bernie, he took the GP away and gave it too Donington, though everyone said the project was unfeasible and when that was proven to sadly be the case, he turned round saying it wasn't anything to do with him. Maybe not but it was his decision to take the race from Silverstone in the first place.

[chillibowl]

BE got the short end of that deal but didn't act the petulant brat and just cancel the British GP. he swallowed his pride and made the deal we all wanted and reportedly for less money. would it have been better if he just did that to begin with? sure but maybe there is also an argument to be made that the BRDC needed a kick to get going.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

BE got the short end of that deal but didn't act the petulant brat and just cancel the British GP. he swallowed his pride and made the deal we all wanted and reportedly for less money. would it have been better if he just did that to begin with? sure but maybe there is also an argument to be made that the BRDC needed a kick to get going.

I remember at the the time how he said it was up to Silverstone to come up with a suitable deal, as if they were being unreasonable but I'm not so sure about him swallowing his pride, rather more like looking like a chump and making an almighty PR gaff, by having no British GP in the anniversary year of GP racing; that would have been embarrassing.

[Purist]

I would say that Monaco is even a bit different from Silverstone. Silverstone has had other known series pay visits. With Monaco, it is Grand Prix racing that people think of there, and nothing else. If Bernie did somehow drop Monaco, there would be a measurable impact, in the negative, for F1. And there could quite easily be a bidding war to see who would fill the gap at the race weekend.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

I would say that Monaco is even a bit different from Silverstone. Silverstone has had other known series pay visits. With Monaco, it is Grand Prix racing that people think of there, and nothing else. If Bernie did somehow drop Monaco, there would be a measurable impact, in the negative, for F1. And there could quite easily be a bidding war to see who would fill the gap at the race weekend.

Monaco is unique in that position compared to other circuits. I think the negativity would impact on Bernie not F1 per se.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The ACO successfully broke away from the FIA.

That's a different case though, there has never been a World Sportscar Championship that could commercially rival F1 for long periods of time. If the ACM decided to leave F1, what would they do - try to start their own series? Invite an inferior one to race there? The Monaco GP has almost always been at the top table of motor racing. It needs to stay there.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

what no Canadian representative!!! you should be more in fear of Japanese outrage than from canadian outrage but i'm outraged nonetheless

They are the races in the 1950 season (less the Indy 500 and Switzerland, where motorsport has been banned since 1955 but might have been re-legalized recently), plus the German Grand Prix which is equally historic, appeared in 1951 and has been continually on the calendar.

[Woolley]

I always find it astonishing that it's possible for someone to be so far up themselves when they don't go up so far.

Fans don't matter, nor does racing. Money is important, sure, but power is what counts. He won't leave Monaco because he gets to stand next to a Prince, but he'd like the Prince to donate more of his wealth for the privelige of standing next to him. Personally I'd rather stand on him.

[Knowlesy]

Given that would be like standing in the mess of a Great Dane, I wouldn't.

[bjohnsonsmith]

I've said it here before and someone didn't like my suggestion, can't remember who it was but I personally think he has early stage dementia.

[Purist]

The original core of the World Drivers Championship (because that is what it started out as) was the British (Silverstone), Monegasque (Monte Carlo), French (Reims), Belgian (Spa), Swiss (Bremgarten), and Italian (Monza) Grands Prix, as well as the Indianapolis 500. And I suppose you could count Germany in there as well with it starting in 1951 at the Nurburgring.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Given that would be like standing in the mess of a Great Dane, I wouldn't.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by Purist

I would say that Monaco is even a bit different from Silverstone. Silverstone has had other known series pay visits. With Monaco, it is Grand Prix racing that people think of there, and nothing else. If Bernie did somehow drop Monaco, there would be a measurable impact, in the negative, for F1. And there could quite easily be a bidding war to see who would fill the gap at the race weekend.

I think your right about a bidding war for the event, after the WRC left as somebody else has pointed out adopting the IRC has rejuvenated the event. Now I'm not suggesting something else would better F1, but I'm sure a lot of series would love to get hold of the event. With the right TV deals it could really boost the profile of some of the other series, particularly if some of them joined forces. With F1's seemingly slow drift away from Europe some would view it as a real opportunity. I'm not suggesting it would be a good thing, as Monaco is all about F1. But as we have seen with Silverstone and France nothing is beyond Bernie I'm afraid.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I always find it astonishing that it's possible for someone to be so far up themselves when they don't go up so far.

Fans don't matter, nor does racing. Money is important, sure, but power is what counts. He won't leave Monaco because he gets to stand next to a Prince, but he'd like the Prince to donate more of his wealth for the privelige of standing next to him. Personally I'd rather stand on him.

The most sensible post on the thread... outside of what Woolley's said here, there's not much worth discussing, is there ?

[bigted]

Probably another reasoning is the continued posturing by Allsport, they are probably missing out on allthe extra income from the parties held in private hotels!