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19 Aug 2015, 06:11 (Ref:3566879) | #1 | ||
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Next step in the evolution of GT/production racing
I see that the BMW M6 GT3 cars is to be marketed at Euros 380K.
Crikey, I can't see national GT series based on GT3 being sustainable if those are the prices for cars. |
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19 Aug 2015, 07:31 (Ref:3566887) | #2 | |
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That's only slightly more than the current cars isn't it? 458 is (or was) €350k
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19 Aug 2015, 07:38 (Ref:3566891) | #3 | ||
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Not sure, but I can see national series going GT4 only soon, if those are the prices. There's a limited number of people/ companies that can afford/ justify that, I'd have thought.
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20 Aug 2015, 18:48 (Ref:3567307) | #4 | ||
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20 Aug 2015, 19:41 (Ref:3567324) | #5 | |
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Yeah but 2005 SRO GT3 concept has nothing to do with 2015 GT3 reality anymore, expect for bop base lining
It was supposed to be third division GT category for rich amateurs driving cheap lower end performance vehicles in club ish circumstances, not the global headliner class with pros and factories |
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20 Aug 2015, 21:31 (Ref:3567347) | #6 | ||
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And like the Dinosaurs their success will come to an end because they cannot sustain themselves!
Isn't the LMP3 category cost capped at circa 200k euros per car? And probably quicker? Not sure? |
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20 Aug 2015, 22:00 (Ref:3567360) | #7 | ||
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Pah, P3... try TCR... , as fast as GT4, but cost capped at €90k, multi-make, and actually with a chance to woe importers into giving you (limited) support.
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20 Aug 2015, 22:12 (Ref:3567363) | #8 | |
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It's not the greatest comparison, since when GT3 eventually does die, it will be because of self inflicted wounds. Non avian dinosaurs succeeded for hundreds of millions years, making our little baby community rather sorry looking in comparison. They survived Triassic-Jurassic extinction period and they probably would still be here (on top of the birds) if it wasnt for the K-Pg asteroid of doom and climatic changes, out of their control.
LMP3 is designed to be couple seconds faster than LMGTE, but have so far struggled to keep up with even them in Ginetta's helm. CN has better price-performance tag but are under subscribed and underrated. But, with the power of ACO behind, P3 does seem to have future ahead in some form Cheap all-bop TCR is basically GT3 2005 v2 so its not surprise to see it taking off, but how long before that takes touring car top spot and transforms itself into obscurity... Last edited by Deleted; 20 Aug 2015 at 22:20. |
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21 Aug 2015, 14:08 (Ref:3567495) | #9 | |
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What is TCR?
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21 Aug 2015, 14:42 (Ref:3567503) | #10 | ||
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21 Aug 2015, 14:43 (Ref:3567504) | #11 | ||
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Marcello Lotti's new (supposed) magic bullet touring car formula: http://tcr-series.com/
Basically taking the GT3 approach of a cheap bring-what-you-want-BoP-series to touring car racing. The first year has been a bit rocky, but apparently plenty of manufacturers are signing up to it with customer car programs. Especially in smaller or crisis-shaken European markets I can see them replacing the national GT-series. It's already happening in the BeNeLux, but I wouldn't bet against a similar development in Spain (Spanish GT died a few years ago, leaving a bit of a void to fill) and France. The one country where I don't see them making much of a dent is the UK, so maybe this should be moved to the "general sportscars" or "GT3 manufacturers" thread? |
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21 Aug 2015, 15:18 (Ref:3567507) | #12 | |
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Thx.
Beats me why all this touring car stuff ends up in the GT section lately anyway... |
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21 Aug 2015, 15:28 (Ref:3567509) | #13 | |||
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A) GT4 or another lower costs GT-formula B) Some form of Silhouette formula, like TA2 or MARC GTC. C) Prototypes (CN or P3) D) Touring Cars, i.e. TCR. So with national GT3 series potentially going the way of the Dodo, that is actually an interesting topic for the "Sportscar and GT"-forum, especially when the alternatives to a switch towards touring cars would very well belong in this forum. |
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21 Aug 2015, 15:53 (Ref:3567514) | #14 | |
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But unlike GT3, the Dodo did nothing wrong, it wasn't it fault that its body features were useless and that the evil men came, in fact -- oh maybe I'll just stop on rambling about extinct avian and non avian dinos for a while
You know there could be demand for new thread to be created for discussion about the next step in evolution in GT/production racing. CN is surely the least likely out of that list Speed? |
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21 Aug 2015, 17:03 (Ref:3567528) | #15 | |||||
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Speed-King; 21 Aug 2015 at 17:11. |
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21 Aug 2015, 20:13 (Ref:3567558) | #16 | |
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GT3 wont die as long as there are buyers. Once those dry up, so will GT3. Then what? GT4? That will increase in cost once its the 'lead' class. It shouldnt even be called GT3 anymore. Its just a name that stuck once GT1&2 died or got renamed. So I wonder if the class folds or evolves?
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21 Aug 2015, 21:23 (Ref:3567578) | #17 | |||||
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What we will see is some countries dropping it altogether while others might make it one class in a multiclass series like the Brits and Italians already did. With that model you really only need half a dozen cars or so to make a viable class and unless the bottom drops out of the economy again, or there is a new super-popular class that hoovers up all the potential entrants, it should be possible to find that many people/teams in most current GT3 markets. That raises the question, what you put in the other classes. GT4 is an option, Italy is pretty successful with a mixed make Cup-class, so that's another option. Quote:
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22 Aug 2015, 05:34 (Ref:3567631) | #18 | ||
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It can eventually be possible to split the GT3 cars into two classes. SRO has had this suggestion up in the air for years, so in case of emergeny, they could possibly catch those balls and put them in action.
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22 Aug 2015, 20:15 (Ref:3567739) | #19 | ||
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I feel that in the future the manufacturers will want to race their latest tech. What happens when we get hybrid sportscars? Like I said in the tusc thread, the NSX will be the first hybrid sportscar/exotic to come at a reasonable price. ~150k is what youd pay for a Porsche GT3, Nissan GTR or Audi R8, but the Honda has a hybrid. What happens if Honda wants to race that car but use its hybrid? Will 'GT3' become that class or will it be GTE? Its going to happen soon, so I wonder if someone like Ratel goes and tries to get a series with hybrid GT's that are affordable (not your 918's and LaFerrari's). |
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23 Aug 2015, 03:23 (Ref:3567817) | #20 | ||
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23 Aug 2015, 04:30 (Ref:3567822) | #21 | ||
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Million dollar hypercars need a new GT1 class, not likely to happen....
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23 Aug 2015, 11:11 (Ref:3567887) | #22 | ||
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The lack of proper multi class structures and regulations is what kills everything. Last edited by Deleted; 23 Aug 2015 at 11:18. |
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23 Aug 2015, 14:31 (Ref:3567928) | #23 | |||
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On the plus side you get easy access. Mfg's can basically show up with anything, get BoP:d, and race on fairly equal terms. On the downside, any mfg wanting to showcase new tech, will surely be deterred by the very same BOP that allows them to race. |
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27 Aug 2015, 07:10 (Ref:3569097) | #24 | ||
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Looks like Lexus don't want to put all their eggs in the GT3-basket and are also developing a lower-spec customer version of the RC-F:
http://www.gt-eins.at/cms/index.php?...10350&Itemid=1 There's more and more cars around that fit pretty much right in the middle between GT3 and GT4 - I think sooner or later someone will try to form a class out of those. Probably won' be Ratel, though, as that'd undercut GT3. |
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27 Aug 2015, 07:31 (Ref:3569098) | #25 | ||
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