[Tech Issue] Qualifying tyres ?

[Marbot]

Pirelli have suggested (among other things) the use of qualifying tyres for 2012.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...tyre-for-2012/

[duke_toaster]

I don't know about a tyre that you can only use in qualifying, but "banzai boots" that will be crazily fast for five or six laps maximum could be an interesting proposition, that could really add strategic options.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

I don't know about a tyre that you can only use in qualifying, but "banzai boots" that will be crazily fast for five or six laps maximum could be an interesting proposition, that could really add strategic options.

Their suggestion that three different compounds of tyres may be given to each of the teams each weekend may cover that.

[phoenix]

Pirelli: "Ultimately, the decision is down to the teams"

But it's not, is it?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by phoenix

Pirelli: "Ultimately, the decision is down to the teams"

But it's not, is it?

I don't think that Pirelli can introduce things without first of all getting the OK from FOTA and the FIA.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I don't think that Pirelli can introduce things without first of all getting the OK from FOTA and the FIA.

The FIA make the rules don't they? - and they banned qualifying tyres way back when.... I don't see any reason why they would change that now. It's a big jump from racing on the tyres used in Q3 (for the top 10) to qualifying tyres and new set of different compound tyres to start the race. Particularly as they don't seem to like the car to be 'special' in any way for qualifying these days, with park ferme rules applying between the end of qualifying until after the race has started (including engine maps).

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by phoenix

The FIA make the rules don't they?

The FIA are open to suggestions with regard to what may be good for the sport. Yes. Qualifying tyres were taken out of the regulations, but they can also be put back in if the circumstances are right. The rules do change from time to time, particularly with regard to tyres.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Marbot

The FIA are open to suggestions with regard to what may be good for the sport. Yes. Qualifying tyres were taken out of the regulations, but they can also be put back in if the circumstances are right. The rules do change from time to time, particularly with regard to tyres.

They do indeed, but my hunch says they won't.....

[Pingguest]

Qualifying tyres? Hopefully after the full abolition of the post-qualifying parc fermé.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Qualifying tyres? Hopefully after the full abolition of the post-qualifying parc fermé.

The abolition of the current parc ferme rules would only succeed in making the fastest cars go faster. To be honest, it's not something that's really that important in the great scheme of things. Why should you be able to change a car that qualified fastest on Saturday into a car that can race the fastest on Sunday? Compromise has made the racing closer.

[hondafan37]

With the actually rules, that you must be start the race with the same tyres that you qualifying this tyres could be very positive.
The cars that used this qualify tyres must go to pist stop to change this tyres in the first laps of the Grand Prix.
Then perhaps Red Bull, Ferrari or Mc Laren do not used this tyres and maybe they start the Grand Prix in the middle of the Grid.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

With the actually rules, that you must be start the race with the same tyres that you qualifying this tyres could be very positive.
The cars that used this qualify tyres must go to pist stop to change this tyres in the first laps of the Grand Prix.
Then perhaps Red Bull, Ferrari or Mc Laren do not used this tyres and maybe they start the Grand Prix in the middle of the Grid.

Or, you know, they could just change the rule and take out the starting thing.

[JeremySmith]

I love F1 you would be hard pushed to come up with a script for all this stuff..

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

The abolition of the current parc ferme rules would only succeed in making the fastest cars go faster. To be honest, it's not something that's really that important in the great scheme of things. Why should you be able to change a car that qualified fastest on Saturday into a car that can race the fastest on Sunday? Compromise has made the racing closer.

Because with the current regs, the fastest race car is very likely to start from pole position already.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Because with the current regs, the fastest race car is very likely to start from pole position already.

So exactly what is the point of changing the regulation now? How far would teams be allowed to change the cars? We certainly don't want to go back to the days of the car racing on Sunday being a completely different one to that which qualified on Saturday!

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

So exactly what is the point of changing the regulation now? How far would teams be allowed to change the cars? We certainly don't want to go back to the days of the car racing on Sunday being a completely different one to that which qualified on Saturday!

That's exactly what I want.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

That's exactly what I want.

Well, you're not going to get it.

Qualifying tyres are one thing. Qualifying chassis, engines, transmissions, suspension, brakes, wings, and steering etc, are another. They would add nothing to the sport except for more reasons not to be in it.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Well, you're not going to get it.

Qualifying tyres are one thing. Qualifying chassis, engines, transmissions, suspension, brakes, wings, and steering etc, are another. They would add nothing to the sport except for more reasons not to be in it.

It would add more spectacle to the sport and make the outcome of the race less predictable. Statistics have shown that the post-qualifying parc fermé made races more predictable, as the qualifying results are more likely to reflect the race paces.

Parts specifically for qualifying were used from the 1970s. But because on-track passing was, despite the lack of artificial means, very well possible and some teams didn't really use those sort of parts. In 1984 McLaren won most races despite lacking a qualifying engine. Niki Lauda became world champion that year, although he usually started somewhere in midfield and no better than from third position. However, as the FIA failed to address the lack of close racing and passing, qualifying and hence parts specifically for qualifying became very and probably too important.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

It would add more spectacle to the sport and make the outcome of the race less predictable.

It's a very, very, very expensive way of doing either of those things. Now that passing and racing has become better, due to a couple of inexpensive solutions, there is now little in the way of 'sporting' need and probably even less financial appetite to spend vast sums of money on qualifying cars.

[Sodemo]

I would much rather Pirelli brought with them a simple selection of soft, medium and hard compound, which teams were free to use as and when they wanted.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I would much rather Pirelli brought with them a simple selection of soft, medium and hard compound, which teams were free to use as and when they wanted.

Pirelli are apparently working on something like that for next season.

“We have more ideas, too. Perhaps we can develop a total of up to six different (dry weather, Slick) compounds and give teams three different types to choose. There are lots of options. We could also create a tyre with much grip for one lap, a special qualifier. Ultimately, the decision is down to the teams; if they don’t want it, we won’t do it.”

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It's a very, very, very expensive way of doing either of those things. Now that passing and racing has become better, due to a couple of inexpensive solutions, there is now little in the way of 'sporting' need and probably even less financial appetite to spend vast sums of money on qualifying cars.

This raises the question - once again - whether any of those cost saving measures indeed resulted in budget cuts. So far, no prove has been delivered. Its more likely teams have spend the saved money, if any, on other things, like aero development.

With mentioning the so-called 'inexpensive solutions' - as if the development and use of the DRS and the development of short-life tyres that cause a record number of tyre changes cost no money and have no negative marketing effect - I'm afraid you missed my point. With the post-qualifying parc fermé the qualifying results very likely reflect the race paces, hence the starting grid is ordered to the drivers' race pace. The fastest man in Sunday's race is very likely to be the fastest in Saturday's qualifying session and therefore start from pole position. DRS and messed-up tyres are not going to fix this problem.

[Marbot]

Pre - 2003 I can only ever remember that, generally, the fastest cars on the grid lined up in the order that you would expect, and then, generally, also finishing the race in the order that you would expect.

Nothing has really changed much before or since, mainly due to the fact that some teams will always have a faster car, regardless of how you mess around with the rules.

For example: Is anyone really expecting the order, in general, to change a great deal this weekend because hot and cold blowing have been banned? It might close the field up a bit!

[phoenix]

What's cold blowing?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by phoenix

What's cold blowing?

"Normally the engine will only produce exhaust gases when the driver is on the throttle. This means when the driver lifts off, the blown diffuser is suddenly robbed of the additional airflow. To get around this, some teams have modified their engine mapping so that when the driver lifts off, although fuel supply and ignition are cut, airflow through the exhaust – and hence to the diffuser -continues. This technique has become known as cold blowing – the exhaust is still blowing into the diffuser, but that airflow is now cold since no fuel or ignition is involved."