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Old 30 Apr 2017, 11:48 (Ref:3730055)   #401
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Honda will supply Sauber in 2018.

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/140069-...uber-from-2018
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Old 30 Apr 2017, 14:11 (Ref:3730093)   #402
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Well after today i suspect Alonso will be even more keen to ditch the team and try his hand at other forms of racing before trying to find anything other than a mclaren to sit in
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Old 30 Apr 2017, 14:34 (Ref:3730108)   #403
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I don't think McLaren will go back to Mercedes, whatever EJ says. The Sauber deal will be in addition.
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Old 30 Apr 2017, 14:50 (Ref:3730115)   #404
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stripedcat should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridstripedcat should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Please - someone sort out McLaren! You had a double WDC not even making it around on parade lap! Come on! This is a disaster!
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Old 30 Apr 2017, 16:26 (Ref:3730131)   #405
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It says Honda will be supplying engines to Sauber alongside McLaren, so I don't think the Merc deal is likely to happen, but stranger things have happened
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Old 30 Apr 2017, 20:40 (Ref:3730189)   #406
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
If my memory serves me correctly the teams have to inform the FIA what engines they will use next year by early May this year, so if McLaren are going to change they had better do so very soon.
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Old 1 May 2017, 13:25 (Ref:3730354)   #407
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surely if Mclaren will supply Sauber with the gearboxes/powertrains to go along with the Honda engines, then that means Mclaren will be using the same gearboxes/powertrains that go along with their Honda engines?
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Old 1 May 2017, 13:30 (Ref:3730358)   #408
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surely if Mclaren will supply Sauber with the gearboxes/powertrains to go along with the Honda engines, then that means Mclaren will be using the same gearboxes/powertrains that go along with their Honda engines?
Or that their current and future supply will be surplus to requirements next season!
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Old 1 May 2017, 14:11 (Ref:3730366)   #409
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I think EJ was having a punt in case it happened and he looked clever. It will be McLaren-Honda next year; the question is, who will be driving. Vandoorne/de Vrys?
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Old 1 May 2017, 18:58 (Ref:3730419)   #410
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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I think EJ was having a punt in case it happened and he looked clever. It will be McLaren-Honda next year; the question is, who will be driving. Vandoorne/de Vrys?
I suspect McLaren will want a top line driver alongside Vandoorne if Alonso moves on, somebody who is a proven race winner, Ricciardo springs to mind as I think his contract is due for renewal.
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Old 2 May 2017, 11:32 (Ref:3730536)   #411
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I suspect McLaren will want a top line driver alongside Vandoorne if Alonso moves on, somebody who is a proven race winner, Ricciardo springs to mind as I think his contract is due for renewal.
But unless there is substantial performance gain over the rest of the season, no front running driver will go there?
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Old 2 May 2017, 14:32 (Ref:3730566)   #412
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But unless there is substantial performance gain over the rest of the season, no front running driver will go there?
Honda are not bit players, but they have acted a bit like idiots recently. You would think that they will get their act together by the start of 2018 (and I personally expect them to), but given their recent track record (no pun intended!) I can't see any top tier driver being attracted to McLaren short of looking for a payday and/or at the end of their career. Unless as you say they have a significant turn around sometime this season.

I also just don't see Jenson coming back unless Alonso was to walk before end of season. And I don't see Jenson running in 2018 if a seat at McLaren is open for 2018. So... Raikkonen to McLaren in 2018? Assuming he belongs in "top tier". He is a WDC after all!

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Old 2 May 2017, 15:04 (Ref:3730578)   #413
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I'm by no means an insider and I knew that a Mclaren defection to Mercedes wasn't going to happen. They wouldn't be doing their jobs if there wasn't inquiries about it mind you but I knew it wasn't going to happen. Bolting on customer engines with no works program on the horizon means you're in permanent also-ran territory.

Whereas with a works program, you've got a big company that pays alot of the bills and no more wants to look the fool than you do. So you got a window and a chance with that.
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Old 2 May 2017, 18:43 (Ref:3730610)   #414
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If I were McLaren, and I suspected, as would only be sensible, that the Spaniard might walk at the end of 2017, I'd be looking at Sainz, Grosjean, PĂ©rez (yes, I know he's been there and done that) and then people from the lower formulae like de Vrys or, if I was feeling brave, Norris.
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Old 2 May 2017, 20:43 (Ref:3730626)   #415
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A new driver at Mac next year might land on his feet at the nice end of the grid in a couple of years. For drivers caught in the bottleneck it might well be a shrewd move. Sainz oughta be a target alright.
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Old 4 May 2017, 17:55 (Ref:3731041)   #416
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I don't think Sainz will sign to drive anything less competitive than what he has now. He must move into a team with race winning potential or risk slipping into the abyss.

Grosjean hasn't done a particularly good job so far this year compared to KMag so Mclaren would doubtless look at that as a negative.
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Old 6 May 2017, 08:15 (Ref:3731416)   #417
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I'm by no means an insider and I knew that a Mclaren defection to Mercedes wasn't going to happen. They wouldn't be doing their jobs if there wasn't inquiries about it mind you but I knew it wasn't going to happen. Bolting on customer engines with no works program on the horizon means you're in permanent also-ran territory.

Whereas with a works program, you've got a big company that pays alot of the bills and no more wants to look the fool than you do. So you got a window and a chance with that.
That would be true if the big company took it seriously enough that they really "no more wants to look the fool than you do". What Honda have been doing is regressing!

What do you do when your partner is a liability, and then gets worse?

"Also-ran" territory surely is better than that. If you are the laughing stock of the whole paddock, you don't dig yourself deeper in that hole unless you're suicidal. Another season and all engine manufacturers will think it's you that's at fault. McLaren have been very gracious with Honda, but some day you cut your losses. I'm beginning to wonder if Horner's vocal dismissal of Renault wasn't what they needed to hear.
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Old 6 May 2017, 19:43 (Ref:3731722)   #418
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That would be true if the big company took it seriously enough that they really "no more wants to look the fool than you do". What Honda have been doing is regressing!

What do you do when your partner is a liability, and then gets worse?

"Also-ran" territory surely is better than that. If you are the laughing stock of the whole paddock, you don't dig yourself deeper in that hole unless you're suicidal. Another season and all engine manufacturers will think it's you that's at fault. McLaren have been very gracious with Honda, but some day you cut your losses. I'm beginning to wonder if Horner's vocal dismissal of Renault wasn't what they needed to hear.
It's a works engine and they pay alot of the bills. The alternative is an engine they pay for themselves and certitude in being also-runs. It's a no brainer to stick with the works engine really.
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Old 6 May 2017, 20:29 (Ref:3731731)   #419
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I'm not sure I agree. But on the other hand, I'm not sure why this riles me up so much either. I am a huge McLaren and Alonso fan, and seeing McLaren struggle like this when it seems like Honda is not even trying really gets to me.

Naturally, they are trying, but it seems puzzling how they can be that bad. I mean, they are not just bad, they are the worst ever, and getting worse!

Well, I guess I should try to let it go.
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Old 6 May 2017, 22:10 (Ref:3731766)   #420
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Well, they're stuck in what I like to call a 'performance ice age'. There's no easy solution to that but to batton down the hatches and wait for a thaw. And if they're not sending out delegations to the non-F1 motoring powerhouses then they are not doing their job.

I'm sure they are quietly doing exactly that and plugging to them the new Liberty era as something fresh compared with the spiv Eccelstone era. And maybe one of the manufacturers will bite within a few years.

And Honda could deliver the goods in that time. One never knows. There's no easy solution and I don't think the turmoil of bolting on customer 'plants will help them much.
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Old 7 May 2017, 02:07 (Ref:3731808)   #421
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But on the other hand, I'm not sure why this riles me up so much either.
A lot of us are probably not sure either.
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Old 8 May 2017, 16:35 (Ref:3732268)   #422
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...I'm beginning to wonder if Horner's vocal dismissal of Renault wasn't what they needed to hear.
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I'm sure they are quietly doing exactly that ...
cherry picking and somewhat off topic, but is it really fair to say that Mclaren and Honda are going about their work in a quiet way?

given ZB's influence and the number of articles on this subject popping up on a daily basis across the entire Motorsports Network, it seems to me Mclaren is exerting more pressure on Honda then Horner/RB ever publicly placed on Renault.
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Old 8 May 2017, 23:59 (Ref:3732347)   #423
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cherry picking and somewhat off topic, but is it really fair to say that Mclaren and Honda are going about their work in a quiet way?
You forgot the other one beginning with 'M'??

Seriously though, does anyone really expect Honda to go public about their dealings with a rival manufacturer?? It is not the first time rival teams and/or manufacturers have worked together behind closed doors in Formula 1. And it won't be the last time either. Gotta have a laugh when you get "serious F1 fans" asking for "proof" of these dealings. As if.

I read some comments from Joe Saward in his blog when the Honda/Sauber deal was announced. Although he hasn't (cannot legally even if he knew) confirm the Honda/M******* dealings, some comments from him are "interesting".





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Old 9 May 2017, 01:16 (Ref:3732354)   #424
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Seriously though, does anyone really expect Honda to go public about their dealings with a rival manufacturer?? It is not the first time rival teams and/or manufacturers have worked together behind closed doors in Formula 1. And it won't be the last time either. Gotta have a laugh when you get "serious F1 fans" asking for "proof" of these dealings. As if.
Well the reverse is just as ridiculous... That if something must remain hidden or unconfirmed, that lack of confirmation is... confirmation.

Listen, never say never. Sure it's possible Honda may be getting help from another manufacturer including Mercedes. But what I have been reading it sounds just as likely they will look to other non manufacture consultants. Rumors abound, but one I have read that rings true for me is that Honda was testing multiple combustion chamber (CC) concepts before settling on one to move forward with. IIRC, two were internal Honda designs and one was from consultant Gilles Simon. They went with the Simon option. Not long after they had public failures with the engine Simon was discharged by Honda. The implication was that Simon's solution was the problem.

"If" this is true, here are some thoughts... First, Honda is/was not as insular as everyone likes to think they are. They went with a solution that was not in house! Second, hopefully Honda doesn't feel burnt by using someone else's ideas. I would like them to continue to get ideas from outside. Third, they had other options they considered. One rumor is that they are looking at implementing one of the other CC solutions they had in the works. That this "might" be a large part of the large upgrade that should show up in the near future.

If not true... well it's just like a slew of other rumors that are floating out there that may not be true such as Mercedes covertly solving Honda's problems.

Oh, I generally like the info Saward has, but one odd bit of logic is that if Honda makes serious improvements, this this is somehow confirmation that Mercedes helped them? Basically Saward is saying there is zero chance Honda is able to make this work without help from Mercedes. Which is ludicrous.

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Old 9 May 2017, 10:11 (Ref:3732433)   #425
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The last point of the previous post may be correct in some senses in that Honda may be able to solve the problem unaided.The problem that may occur is if the solution involves patented or protected technology and it could cause complications if such matters were infringed.It gets more involved if outside consultancies are involved as they would tarnish their professional standing if they were known to be associated with pirating.If some form of licensing agreement were in place the whole working environment becomes clean and advantages accrue to all parties.
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