[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[XtC24]

About GT:
I know we have BOP for close racing and it worked well couple of times last year (not quite in Le Mans, where it was not the new automated system working and this year it will also be set manually).
But yet I wish we had no BOP in GTE. It has the potential to be great since we have really big names in factory teams - both the brands and drivers.
This could be massive if the manufacturers really competed, it could get as important as LMP1.
Now we have close racing but look at the BMW M8 - it is like a big fat cow, looks very heavy. It seems only reason to have M8 is because it is new model and needs the promotion. M4 or even M3 seems a lot more suited to build a competitive car.
On the other side we have the Ford GT, which looks like it was 10 cm lower then the rest (it probably is), looks like it is from another league.
And it all has to be balanced so the M8 is close to the GT.

Porsches look very good, in fact the Am RSR is faster than lots of GTE pros.

It all looks worst at LeMans, one or two teams will be 'chosen' to fight for the win with BOP for sure.

[Deleted]

You only have to look back so far as 2009 (and to some extent 2010 even with the arrival of waiver-infested new GT2 cars) to see pretty much non-bopped GT grid at Le Mans. And even as 'late' as 2011 there was still a 0,5% system utilized in ILMC, which granted a margin for manufacturers to push somewhat

Anyway it's BMW's 'turn' to win this year, they'll get favors in lead up to LM. It might've also been Aston otherwise but they already won last year

[carbsmith]

The M4 is a bad platform for a GTE car. It's like the GT3 ATS where the overhangs are too short and it needs ~20cm worth of fender flares, which gives you a tiny splitter, a small diffuser, a weaker rear wing, and a ridiculously blunt draggy nose. GT cars have just gotten too long and wide to use small sport sedans anymore.






The M8 isn't an ideal car (especially without chopping the side sills to make the body lower like they wanted to) but it's floorplan dimensions are the closest BMW has.

[chernaudi]

Copy and pasted from the Spa thread so you don't have to dig for it and because I'm cheating by not typing it back out:

On Toyota's appearnt team orders: "As I've said, Audi rarely used team orders, doesn't mean they never did (Nurburgring '08 to favor the higher ranked car in the title chase and at Road America the same year to ensure that at least one of their cars won unlike '07 where intra-team battling cost them a win).

As I've said, a lot of people here seem to have come accustomed to that and the fact that Toyota for instance didn't have team orders last year, especially at Spa."

On negativity/skepticism/cynicism over Toyota and Alonso: "I also think that people are being cynical about Alonso being the star driver and the fact that it seems that Fuji got moved to Toyota could be assured of having him on the driving squad among other things. But I believe that's probably a better discussion for another thread."

On Spa and possible season prospects: "I think that things could've been better in terms of the overall battle, but things weren't also the disaster that some predicted, either. I think that the LMP1 privateers have genuine pace and once they get their cars sorted, and maybe with a bit of help from EOT (maybe halfway between what was set up at Spa and the WEC Prologue), we could still have one hell of a season."

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

The M4 is a bad platform for a GTE car. It's like the GT3 ATS where the overhangs are too short and it needs ~20cm worth of fender flares, which gives you a tiny splitter, a small diffuser, a weaker rear wing, and a ridiculously blunt draggy nose. GT cars have just gotten too long and wide to use small sport sedans anymore.






The M8 isn't an ideal car (especially without chopping the side sills to make the body lower like they wanted to) but it's floorplan dimensions are the closest BMW has.

IMO, the M8 and M4 are both sexy cars I wouldn't mind owning if I drove/had decent driving skills and money were no object, but I agree. Just because they're both great sports coupes doesn't make them great platforms for modern GT sports cars. Modern GTE cars (and even GT3s) are verging more and more on genuine supercar territory.

That's the biggest mark I actually hold against BMW: no true successor to take up the mantle of the original M-car, the M1. Now that's something I'd like to see, and see raced.

[carbsmith]

I tend to believe that if the privateers are passably close at Spa they're likely to be very close at Le Mans. Particularly the Dallaras should be much closer there unless they screwed up the same way as in LMP2 last year.

[ibsey]

I love WEC, but saying that Toyota is in the same class as other LMP1s is just ridiculous. There was no chance any of them could challenge them for win. Is this a cost of keeping them in the series? 1-2 in each race?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by ibsey

I love WEC, but saying that Toyota is in the same class as other LMP1s is just ridiculous. There was no chance any of them could challenge them for win. Is this a cost of keeping them in the series? 1-2 in each race?

Disagree, I'm sure toyota will find a way to lose this year le mans too.
BTW rebellion confirmed to be basically the ultimate gun among private teams! a whole new car with a limite test miliage that outpaced BR1 AER that got almost a year of development and much more test time.

[chernaudi]

Now it seems that the ACO and FIA want to homologate tires/limit tire development, given that Michelin has been charged a 250K Euro fee from the WEC/ACO, of which 50,000 Euro had to paid this weekend and 200K Euro has been suspended until delivery of tires for Le Mans. This after they didn't deliver 720 tires on time to be issued to teams later this season.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/m...fine-from-fia/

DSC had a similar tidbit in their pre-race notes though with a smaller fine amount.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Now it seems that the ACO and FIA want to homologate tires/limit tire development, given that Michelin has been charged a 250K Euro fee from the WEC/ACO, of which 50,000 Euro had to paid this weekend and 200K Euro has been suspended until delivery of tires for Le Mans. This after they didn't deliver 720 tires on time to be issued to teams later this season.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/m...fine-from-fia/

DSC had a similar tidbit in their pre-race notes though with a smaller fine amount.

Very strange penalty in my opinion. Is this actually an area where the fia thinks there are shenanigans going on?

[Adam43]

I vaguely remember the rule on restriction of tyre development being announced.

I don’t remember this method to make sure it was adhered to. Clever.

Do you think that there could be a different in performance of a tyre that was stored for months and one freshly made?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by ibsey

I love WEC, but saying that Toyota is in the same class as other LMP1s is just ridiculous. There was no chance any of them could challenge them for win. Is this a cost of keeping them in the series? 1-2 in each race?

So what do you want to do? Throw them out? The fact that they've stayed when their competition has run away isn't their fault.

[S griffin]

Blame the way the rules were written and the series is set, not the messengers, in this case Toyota

[Aysedasi]

As I say, they stayed on to race. Not to pose around doing pointless demonstration laps......

[S griffin]

Yes, they chose to continue to race in a series with no real competition and it’s not their fault everyone else has left

[Deleted]

The original reported intention for Toyota was to run LM/Spa/Fuji only. Had ACO not enforced the "[manufacturers] must do all the races to be eligible for Le Mans" rule, they probably would not have committed to events beyond those 2-3, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But yes I agree if you necessarily have to 'blame' somebody, do it for the body, not the messenger. And even there, I can't really agree with it. For 2 reasons:
1) This is a natural periodical thing to happen in sportscars, the last time this occurred was 12 years ago (one manufacturer against privateers) and it will happen again down the road sooner or later. At least it the ACO doesn't sell it's soul to devil in it's quest to lure in everybody per the modern way of thinking ("quantity over quality"), and make the new P1/GTP the new cheap DPi or GTE, that is...
2) Now that Toyota is there, they should have the natural tech/speed advantage over privateers because that's what would happen naturally anyway - other way around would be BoP travesty

Anyway for the final word, as I've been saying, it's obvious Toyota will dominate and manufacture easy wins in these 6 hour races, but that won't be the case in June, not by a long shot.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The original reported intention for Toyota was to run LM/Spa/Fuji only.

That was completely unfounded, Toyota always said their intention was to stay in WEC. People always like to make up things about what Toyotas intentions are. How many times have we heard they would either pull out when they lose or win Le Mans that particular year?

[S griffin]

Toyota were the only thing that really saved the WEC. Otherwise it would probably have gone under and the ACO would have to have concentrated solely on ELMS

[EffectiveSprinkles]

... Or, it would have been the same with probably even more privateer LMP1 cars.

[S griffin]

Yeah, but I don’t think the FIA/ACO wanted that

[Irie]

Didn't Toyota put their prorgam forward initally in 2012 because Peugeot pulled out of the WEC after being asked by the ACO?

[S griffin]

I seem to remember the FIA forced them to come in, as it needed two manufacturers to be a world series. So there was all that

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

That was completely unfounded, Toyota always said their intention was to stay in WEC. People always like to make up things about what Toyotas intentions are. How many times have we heard they would either pull out when they lose or win Le Mans that particular year?

Had they won LM in 2014 or 2016 or whenever already, it's just as likely they might've bailed out, especially after the exit of VW. Maybe topping Mazda on 2 LM wins might've been another goalpoint, but who knows.

And as for "completely unfounded", even Grahan Goodwin (so not Dagys) mentioned the Spa/LM/Fuji thing on RLM last fall. Furthermore if there wasn't danger at all, the ACO would not have had to clarify the "must do full season" thingy.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Well, thanks for repeating everything again.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Well, thanks for repeating everything again.

Don't worry you've excelled in that area very well too.