Moto GP: 1000cc Bikes In 2012!

[jhansen]

Saw a blurb on facebook from the MotoGP site that we will have 1000cc, four cylinder bikes in 2012. I am sure more news will be released shortly. Watch this space. If they cut out some of the electronics, then this could be brilliant. The four cylinder bit is the interest part to me. More production like?

[Jeff 8]

The full story: http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/155...s_in_2012.html

Why the constant attack on electronics, road bikes have electronics, tc etc. We could see a return to the massive high sides and crippling injuries of the late 80s and early 90s.

Jeff

[jhansen]

I'm not saying cut all electronics, just don't make it so the riders will have to depend on it as much. In fact, in my opinion, this would benefit riders like Rossi and Stoner, who have a good feel for the bike. Rossi says cut about 70% of the electronics. They would still have basic traction control, but nothing like now. Launch and wheelie control would be eliminated.

[gomick]

MotoGP =1000cc, Moto2 = 600cc, they very worried of WSBK

[chunder]

A return to the crippling injuries you say!

Well lorenzo is walking evidnece of bad injuries as are Toseland, Gibernau and a few others!

Increasing side grip really doesnt help with making the bike easier to ride, it just makes it harder to setup, and if you make a mistake as Suzuki did this year, no amount of effort or engine power is going to help you.

Far better to go back to turn it, heel it over and fire it out ways of yore.

Rossi only wants no TC as he knows he will murder everyone again with it!

Please remember when guys liek Cadalora, Kocinski, Criville, Garriga, Pons came over to 500 from 250 they took years to get up to speed.

Are people really saying that these guys werent as good as Lorenzo, Pedrosa, de Puniet etc? Of course they are! Just that 800 bikes are like big 250's with loads of TC and electronics.

Just like F1 in the late 90's early 00's, any half decent driver can get on one and be on the pace, they wont win but they will be quickish.

This is why guys come in, do nothing and go away, coz they are simply not good enough to be in GP

[2000yellow360]

Bikes with that level of power are not rideable without traction control. Indeed, as Casey has shown, if you rely on the TC, you can win. If you watch him, he's first on the gas, last on the brakes. He lets the TC fix what he's done. Hayden isn't quite as trusting, and therefore doesn't go as fast.

Eliminating TC will save some money for the teams, but you'll see a lot more riders hurt, and much slower race times. Individual qualifying may be quicker, not the race time will be slower.

Art

[Jeff 8]

I think one of MotoGP's biggest fears is being overtaken by World Superbike in lap times. They are very close at most tracks now and MotoGP looks pretty silly when their mega dollar prototypes are slower than a production based bike. A lot of this must come down to rideability.

Jeff

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by 2000yellow360

Indeed, as Casey has shown, if you rely on the TC, you can win. If you watch him, he's first on the gas, last on the brakes. He lets the TC fix what he's done. Hayden isn't quite as trusting, and therefore doesn't go as fast.

Hayden has seen Stoner's data and says that's not the case.

[2000yellow360]

Originally Posted by jhansen

Hayden has seen Stoner's data and says that's not the case.

I've seen the data also, and disagree.

When Hayden starts going as quickly as Casey, I'll believe he understands the data.

I know what I don't know. I don't think that Nicky does.

Art

[DavidStHubbins]

Bigger engines will mean bigger torque and a return to point and squirt, backing it in and gunning it out. More fun to watch!

800s are peaky and powerful, but less torque than the 990s. Like technologically advanced 250s with more power. Which is just not cricket.

Why not 2011 though? I hope Rossi is still around for them....

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by jhansen

Hayden has seen Stoner's data and says that's not the case.

Originally Posted by 2000yellow360

I've seen the data also, and disagree.

When Hayden starts going as quickly as Casey, I'll believe he understands the data.

I know what I don't know. I don't think that Nicky does.

From the Nickey Hayden interview, posted today on Superbikeplanet.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/...-interview.htm

Question, Superbikeplanet: What was the difference in what you saw in the data between yourself and Casey Stoner. Did you ever see his data, and did it look different?

Answer, Nicky Hayden: Sure. Everything is an open book around there. I think that's one of Ducati's strengths. From the satellite riders to the factory riders, you go up into the truck, it's all— the team managers from all four—chief mechanics from all four riders, now five riders, working from the same truck, sharing all the same information. I think that's a strength for them.

His data was ...it wasn't so much he only relied on the electronics to do all the work. He really has great throttle control. He gets off the corners better. That's one of the things that surprised me. He really gets off the corners good. But for the most part, he's still about a second a lap quicker than me most places. He's faster everywhere, but one of the things early in the year that was encouraging.

I say "everywhere" but there would be parts on the track where I would always be just as fast as him, but there was a couple places on the track where I would lose a lot of time. So that kind of gave me some good confidence, knowing that if I could always fix those one areas, I would be getting closer. So I've still got to get a lot closer, but we're confident that we can close that gap. One of the things is his top speed is always quite a bit better than mine. So we're going to go back to the wind tunnel in a couple of weeks and try to improve that. Because I got no doubt we have all the same parts, same engines and stuff.

He does get off the corner better than me. But we're missing something, aerodynamics or somewhere. Because there's too big a difference.

[2000yellow360]

Originally Posted by jhansen

From the Nickey Hayden interview, posted today on Superbikeplanet.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/...-interview.htm

Question, Superbikeplanet: What was the difference in what you saw in the data between yourself and Casey Stoner. Did you ever see his data, and did it look different?

Answer, Nicky Hayden: Sure. Everything is an open book around there. I think that's one of Ducati's strengths. From the satellite riders to the factory riders, you go up into the truck, it's all— the team managers from all four—chief mechanics from all four riders, now five riders, working from the same truck, sharing all the same information. I think that's a strength for them.

His data was ...it wasn't so much he only relied on the electronics to do all the work. He really has great throttle control. He gets off the corners better. That's one of the things that surprised me. He really gets off the corners good. But for the most part, he's still about a second a lap quicker than me most places. He's faster everywhere, but one of the things early in the year that was encouraging.

I say "everywhere" but there would be parts on the track where I would always be just as fast as him, but there was a couple places on the track where I would lose a lot of time. So that kind of gave me some good confidence, knowing that if I could always fix those one areas, I would be getting closer. So I've still got to get a lot closer, but we're confident that we can close that gap. One of the things is his top speed is always quite a bit better than mine. So we're going to go back to the wind tunnel in a couple of weeks and try to improve that. Because I got no doubt we have all the same parts, same engines and stuff.

He does get off the corner better than me. But we're missing something, aerodynamics or somewhere. Because there's too big a difference.

Exactly, he gets off the corner better. Watch the video of him riding. Opens the throttle earlier, and lets the electronics take care of the wheel spin. That is exactly what I've been saying.

Art

[jhansen]

There is such a thing as "traction control with the right wrist" per say. One thing I noticed at Laguna, you heard more TC sounds coming from Hayden's bike than Stoner's. Not that I'm an expert. Also, watching the on board telemetry from Dorna, when Stoner was side by side with Rossi or Lorenzo, he wasn't just whacking the throttle open quicker than those two guys.

I'll just end with that. The discussion will moot in a couple of years. Hopefully they will dumb down the electronics a bit so we can see some real riding again once we go back to liter bike rules.

[chunder]

Pure and simple Casey is able to get off the corner better, its why Valentino is such a God too!

Stoner prefers the new Duke engine coz he says he can run minimal TC.

To change tack, Simon Andrews ran the Kawasaki ZX10 in BSB this year largely without TC against a few teams with Marelli Marvel gear and was abel tog et top 4, arguably best Kawa rider in Europe. So its not that necessary if you can setup a bike without it.

Also it gives your rider an advantage in two ways, psychologically he will know that he can beat them with a harder to ride bike (Doohan with the screamer best example ever) and secondly he can be more flexible! This is why Pedrosa can never pick up pace late on as he CANT ride without it whereas Stoner, Rossi and otehrs can.

Lorenzo compared to Vale uses loads, just listen to teh traces?

[2000yellow360]

Originally Posted by jhansen

There is such a thing as "traction control with the right wrist" per say. One thing I noticed at Laguna, you heard more TC sounds coming from Hayden's bike than Stoner's. Not that I'm an expert. Also, watching the on board telemetry from Dorna, when Stoner was side by side with Rossi or Lorenzo, he wasn't just whacking the throttle open quicker than those two guys.

I'll just end with that. The discussion will moot in a couple of years. Hopefully they will dumb down the electronics a bit so we can see some real riding again once we go back to liter bike rules.

I understand what you are saying, but you miss the point: the traction control(s) and the various items are set by the rider and his crew. If you set it lower you get less wheel spin. Casey sets his wheel spin control on a higher setting, and lets it work. That was and is the point.

Art

[chunder]

I beg to differ!

Have seen pictures and data that prove Casey uses far lower setting than people realise. He uses it yes but his feel for the throttle and linear connection between the lever and the throttle bodies is amazing, maybe why only he can get the extreme level out of the bike that no one else can.

He uses a lot of spin on exit and while his engine braking and stuff might be high his feel for rear end stuff is very good