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Old 18 Apr 2010, 15:36 (Ref:2675010)   #1
neilap
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neilap should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Stewards Reprimand both drivers.

Both drivers were reprimanded for their actions in the pits, LH and SV. Last year I doubt this would have been the result. Initially I thought LH was going to get a drive through etc. but seeing the replay SV kept LH in the slow lane. I am glad to see that the races are being decided by the racers not the stewards. On a side note MW was also complaining about LH but the replays again showed that LH was clearly on the inside and it, well, was a racing incident.
Lewis has imo been the driver of the race in three of the opening races. He is plagued by poor decisions but has been able to make up for it with skill that I dont ever remember seeing in F1. A stewards decision to destroy his results would have been another scar on the sport.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 15:41 (Ref:2675012)   #2
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 15:55 (Ref:2675025)   #3
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Yes Lewis is not guilty of anything, we get it. Webber just drove off track because he thought he was on a Mountain Bike trek, I guess?
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 16:00 (Ref:2675030)   #4
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I didn't see the coming together with Webber, but having just watched the beginning of the repeat (and then fell asleep as usual), I did see the pit stop shenanigans.

And I'm left utterly bemused as to how what Hamilton/McLaren did is only a "reprimand".

The lad is a ****ing liability in my opinion, potentially a very serious accident waiting to happen.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 16:08 (Ref:2675036)   #5
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neilap should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Vettel was in the wrong imo he forced LH back in the slow lane. Both were on the pit lane speed limiter. Drivers are not there to concede positions. Also, the teams cant wait for the person coming up the pit lane to pass to let their man out, that would be an unfair advantage. There was room for two but Vettel did not feel that to be so. LH could have backed off too thus both getting reprimanded.
@ Splatz its a little funny that someone like Webber would complain. Webber constantly makes moves far worse than that. Im not trying to start something but he really should not be the one complaining.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 16:14 (Ref:2675041)   #6
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Also, the teams cant wait for the person coming up the pit lane to pass to let their man out
But that's preciesly what the 55 yard (or whatever it is) zone is meant to resolve (all be it as a guideline, not an enforceable rule). In most pitlanes, including China, it is downright dangerous to have two cars side by side and wheel to wheel.

Realistically the punishment for the release and pitlane fun should be aimed at the team(s) rather than driver(s) - and I'll accept it isn't easy to judge which of the teams is most at fault.

As for the silly stuff on entry to the pitlane, that was blatantly Hamilton's fault and very nearly took the pair of them out.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 16:23 (Ref:2675052)   #7
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neilap should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Entering the pits LH did something foolish. I thought he was trying to re-live China from a couple years back. He was lucky to not get some kind of "reprimand" for that. Apparently the rules for entering the pits are not as strict.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 16:31 (Ref:2675057)   #8
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Watching the pit lane incident, it appears that McLaren released Hamilton into Vettel's Path. I can understand the reprimand for Alonso and Hamilton for what they did at the entrance, but not for Hamilton driving down the slow lane in the pits. The cars are equipped with a speed limiter for the pit lane and Hamilton was not in front of Vettel while they were driving through the pits. McLaren was trying to get Hamilton out as quickly as possible, but not quite fast enough to get him out ahead of Vettel. Vettel would not have been able to "force" Hamilton into the slow lane if Hamilton had been released in time. Since he wasn't released early enough to clear Vettel he should have slowed down and followed him instead of creating a hazard and possibly being penalized as has happened in previous incidents where cars were released into the paths of others in the pit lane.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 16:50 (Ref:2675075)   #9
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I didn't think they released him into Vettel's path - they went at almost exactly the same time, which means that when Hamilton's lollipop guy looked back, Vettel would still have been in his pit box. If Vettel had already been released, it would be a different situation.

On the messing about on the way down the pitlane, I thought both drivers were at fault: Hamilton for not conceding the position, and Vettel for edging him towards the garages, which was dangerous and unnecessary. I think it's good that the stewards aren't so trigger-happy when it comes to dishing out penalties, but I do wonder whether they should have taken more of a stand on this because it wasn't out on the circuit and it was therefore potentially dangerous to a lot of people in the pitlane.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 16:50 (Ref:2675076)   #10
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Ignoring whether you think Vettel or Hamilton was in the wrong inside the pits, Hamilton should have been penalized for aggressive pitlane actions. As soon as Vettel had a wheel in front, regardless of pitlane position left or right, Hamilton should have had to fall inline out of respect for safety. However, that's not the one that got me fired up, disregarding the entrance to pitlane and deciding he wanted to jump in after the entrance by crossing the gravel was (or should be) well and clearly outside the rules. Pitlane entrance should be as clearly defined as pit exit, both Hamilton and Alsonso should have been warned if not issued a drive through for challenging positions within the pit entrance. I'm sure it's not in the rules now but with a pitlane like China there should be a division between the racing surface and the pit entrance. Speed would be up to the driver but when entering you have committed to position in which you crossed the line, wheel over the line side to side would be a drive-through.

Personally I'm tired of the reprimands, either penalize the driver during the race or strip them of the points earned. The reprimands are pointless unless it works as a penalty points system, 2 reprimands in the span of 2-3 races and you're out for the following GP or X number of points depending on the offence and after Y points you've earned a GP off. Otherwise all you are doing is giving us something to talk about and not doing anything to stop anybody from doing it each weekend.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 16:59 (Ref:2675082)   #11
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Just hard racing if you ask me. Glad to see less penalties now that ex-f1 drivers are in the stewards room. Men who know what it's like to be out on track racing for position.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 17:04 (Ref:2675084)   #12
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Men who know what it's like to be out on track racing for position.
Indeed.

I just wonder how long it will before before someone actually does get a penalty and the whole world falls apart.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 17:05 (Ref:2675086)   #13
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When Lewis and Seb were on the approach to the pit lane together, Seb was on the outside just off Lewis's right rear. Lewis was gesticulating to Vettel with his right hand that he was pitting, presumably so that they didn't have an accident - at that point Hamilton probably wouldn't have known that Vettel was also coming in, so I think the way it played out on the entrance to the pits was fair. The pair of them were released almost simultaneously, but Lewis had more wheelspin, so was slower into the fast lane, allowing Seb alongside. Seb definitely squeezed him back into the slow lane, when there was room for both to duke it out side by side on pit exit. In my opinion Seb did this to ensure Lewis backed out, so he had a free run down to the first corner. Had he not done this Lewis would have had the racing line. All that said, I do think it's just one of those things, and a reprimand for both was appropriate.

Regarding the Webber incident, Hamilton had Vettel up alongside on his left, he was sandwiched between the two Red Bulls, so something had to give, and n this instance it was Webber that lost out. Splatz - I'm afraid you'll just have to view it as payback for Webber punting Lewis off in Melborne. It's a racing incident, nothing more, no penalties needed
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 17:06 (Ref:2675087)   #14
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Both Vettel and Hamilton were wrong (but not McLaren) - once he got sideways and Vettel came alongside Hamilton should have ceded the place and fell behind. However, this does not give Vettel the right petulently try and force him to one side at all.

The thing that is genuinly scary is that at one point the two cars had their wheels locked - one touch and either Hamilton would have been flipped into a garage or Vettel into the personnel on the pit wall.

However - does anyone else thing that this year in all the races we've seen an outbreak of common sense in the stewards decisions - actions (I think) to nip things in the bud with reprimands, rather than jumping to ruin the racing.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 17:11 (Ref:2675091)   #15
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Yes Lewis is not guilty of anything, we get it. Webber just drove off track because he thought he was on a Mountain Bike trek, I guess?
Struth mate.

Personally I'm fed up of all this 'ah your never say Hamilton does anything wrong' attitude. Its not true. Even his biggest fans admit when he crosses the line. And from a Webber fan - well, its a bit pot calling kettle...

On the 'Webber pushed off' incident, the replays clearly show that Hamilton was avoiding a collision with Vettel and had no-where to go.

Get over it. You'll be saying Hamilton was to blame for Webber fluffing it and letting Petrov past next...
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 17:16 (Ref:2675095)   #16
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Just hard racing if you ask me. Glad to see less penalties now that ex-f1 drivers are in the stewards room. Men who know what it's like to be out on track racing for position.
There you are perfect analogy thank you for that..
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 18:46 (Ref:2675161)   #17
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Exactly!! The errors were pointed out and the drivers were reprimanded. Thats all that is necessary in my view. If Lewis has done his weaving again I guarantee he would have had a drive though etc.

Its just great to see drivers get a chance to race and race hard, not being afraid of penalties because someone, a non racer, decides they are racing too hard.

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Just hard racing if you ask me. Glad to see less penalties now that ex-f1 drivers are in the stewards room. Men who know what it's like to be out on track racing for position.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 18:56 (Ref:2675175)   #18
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Just hard racing if you ask me. Glad to see less penalties now that ex-f1 drivers are in the stewards room. Men who know what it's like to be out on track racing for position.
Exactly!

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Exactly!! The errors were pointed out and the drivers were reprimanded. Thats all that is necessary in my view. If Lewis has done his weaving again I guarantee he would have had a drive though etc.

Its just great to see drivers get a chance to race and race hard, not being afraid of penalties because someone, a non racer, decides they are racing too hard.
Exactly again! How can we, motor sport fans, be having a discussion about trying to prevent any racing action from taking place, in the pits or otherwise.

All F1 fans do is complain about a lack of overtaking/action, and then when something interesting actually happens, fans of any drivers involved immediately decide they must be penalised.

Just another thing putting me off F1. I'm off to watch the BTCC.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 18:58 (Ref:2675176)   #19
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I think Webber blamed the Volcanic Ash for letting Petrov through .

I noticed during the race a couple of times drivers overtaking going into the pits (the one i remember and clearly noticed was Alonso on Massa), I guess the Stewards find that ok.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 19:01 (Ref:2675180)   #20
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I didn't think they released him into Vettel's path - they went at almost exactly the same time, which means that when Hamilton's lollipop guy looked back, Vettel would still have been in his pit box. If Vettel had already been released, it would be a different situation.
I've seen similar situations in CART and the IRl, with two cars leaving their pits at more or less the same time and nearly coming together on lots of occasisions. The big difference with CART/IRL the pit lane can be much wider, so a coming together is less likely. What also helps is the teams have smaller pit crews than F1, so there are fewer people around the car, so the car isn't so obscured as it leaves the pits.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 19:02 (Ref:2675186)   #21
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We have to let these guys race, otherwise what is the point of the whole exercise?
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 19:02 (Ref:2675187)   #22
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Hard racing is for the track, not the pit lane

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Just hard racing if you ask me. Glad to see less penalties now that ex-f1 drivers are in the stewards room. Men who know what it's like to be out on track racing for position.
It depends whether you take the view that other pit crews were put in danger.

If you would have been happy to be standing next to it, you don't feel anyone was put in danger, and that's one view.

But if not, these guys should not be putting other pit crews at risk - and the debate is not whether anyone should be penalised, but who was responsible and what should be the penalty.

My own view is that i) both drivers are at fault - in line with the ruling, and ii) possibly the Maclaren pit crew also contributed with ill judged release. iii) a reprimand is insufficient because of the possible consequences to other pit crews.

If you really like hard racing in the pit lane, let's throw away the speed limit - are you really in favour of that ?
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 19:05 (Ref:2675197)   #23
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I guess the Stewards find that ok.
I bet Massa did too.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 19:08 (Ref:2675203)   #24
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We have to let these guys race, otherwise what is the point of the whole exercise?
There are places where you can race 'safely' and others where you can't, hence the reprimands.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 19:10 (Ref:2675207)   #25
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There are places where you can race 'safely' and others where you can't, hence the reprimands.
Race track 'safe' pit lane very unsafe.
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