[FIA GT] GT4 - The future...?

[BSchneiderFan]

Very unlike Porsche to drop the ball so spectacularly - generally they know how to keep their racing customers happy. They've got enough experience, after all!

[merak1974]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Some news about the Porsche Cayman GT4:
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...customers.html

Porsche is making a mess of it. This is not the way you treat your customers.

... Well, 3 Cayman GT4 are on the entry list for the European Championship. The issues seem to be exclusive to the British GT Championship.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by merak1974

... Well, 3 Cayman GT4 are on the entry list for the European Championship. The issues seem to be exclusive to the British GT Championship.

Not sure if these aren't Prosport's home-builts from last year...

[Mark0994]

They are PROsport cars
The Dutch squad may expect fierce competition from PROsport Performance. The German team enter three Porsche Cayman PRO4 GT4 vehicles with race winner Peter Terting teaming up with Daniel Rymes from the Czech Republic. Jörg Viebahn, fifth in the standings last year, partners with Mike Hansch. Former DTM driver Carsten Struwe also competes with the new Porsche under the umbrella of the German team.

[Rcz]

GT4 is looking really good. Come on IMSA, adopt into the WTSC before the PWC get any further ahead!

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Rcz

GT4 is looking really good. Come on IMSA, adopt into the WTSC before the PWC get any further ahead!

Why on Earth should IMSA put what are essentially Conti GS-cars in their main series?!

Either way, here are the top-10 qualifying results from today's qualifying session at Monza:

Top ten, qualifying 1:
1 Van der Ende, Ekris M4 GT4, 1:58.907
2 Still, Sin Cars Sin R1 GT4, +0.067 seconds
3 Terting, Porsche Cayman PRO4 GT4, +0.512
4 Knap, Ekris M4 GT4, +0.743
5 Sernagiotto, Maserati GranTurismo MC GT4, +0.756
6 Monti, Maserati GranTurismo MC GT4, +0.826
7 Coronel, BMW M3 GT4, +1.060
8 Freiburghaus, KTM X-Bow GT4, +1.166
9 Calamia, Maserati GranTurismo MC GT4, +1.309
10 Beelen, Chevrolet Camaro GT4, +1.675

Top ten, qualifying 2:
1 Guelden, Sin Cars Sin R1 GT4, 1:58.869
2 Helistekangas, KTM X-Bow GT4, +0.789
3 Marioneck, KTM X-Bow GT4, +1.007
4 Anselmi, Maserati GranTurismo MC GT4, +1.056
5 Monti, Maserati Trofeo MC GT4, +1.087
6 Allessandro, Porsche 911 (997) GT4, +1.120
7 Lackinger, BMW M3 GT4, +1.248
8 Nooren, Chevrolet Camaro GT4, +1.373
9 Zamparini , Maserati GranTurismo MC GT4, +1.934
10 Severs, Ekris M4 GT4, +1.985

Full results can be found here.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rcz

GT4 is looking really good. Come on IMSA, adopt into the WTSC before the PWC get any further ahead!

No. They belong in the Conti series GS class. THAT is what IMSA needs to hurry up and adopt them for.

[FIRE]

Race 1 starts in a few minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXpmrG1Pv1E

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Race 1 starts in a few minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXpmrG1Pv1E

Was just about to post that.

[FIRE]

Nice jump from Viebahn.

[FIRE]

Good battle for 1st place.

[J Jay]

Thanks for reminding me of this, that was a hard fought overtake for Still!

[FIRE]

If the rest of the season has the same level it will be a great season.

[merak1974]

Originally Posted by FIRE

If the rest of the season has the same level it will be a great season.

Couldn't agree more!

[merak1974]

A great win for the Villorba Corse team Maserati GT4 driven by Anselmi and Sernagiotto:
http://gt4series.com/sernagiotto-ans...ries-at-monza/

[Rcz]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

No. They belong in the Conti series GS class. THAT is what IMSA needs to hurry up and adopt them for.

Because GS is high production showroom stock series, not a place for over the top exotics like the xbow and the Sin. Hell that Z/28 should've have classified as a GT4 and never been placed in GS or been allowed to replace "normal" Cameros.

Keep GS showroom stock as much as possible please.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rcz

Because GS is high production showroom stock series, not a place for over the top exotics like the xbow and the Sin. Hell that Z/28 should've have classified as a GT4 and never been placed in GS or been allowed to replace "normal" Cameros.

Keep GS showroom stock as much as possible please.

GT4 is showroom stock. The cars are barely modified from their roadgoing counterparts.

The Conti series has the ST class that can run the high-production-volume cars if it comes down to it. GS needs to adapt or die, and GT4 is a perfect fit.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

GT4 is showroom stock. The cars are barely modified from their roadgoing counterparts.

The Conti series has the ST class that can run the high-production-volume cars if it comes down to it. GS needs to adapt or die, and GT4 is a perfect fit.

'Showroom stock' implies that there is a showroom...

IMSA screwed up big time by allowing the Z28s, but if they can turn back the clock on that and show teams that something like this won't happen again, they should be able to get out of this rut.

Adding SINs, Ginettas and KTMs would bring nothing but a - probably modest - increase in numbers to the series, but they would contribute absolutely nothing in the way of sponsorship and activation and might even drive away manufacturers that are actually interested in doing that.

But okay, let's say they allow GT4 but not the kitcar side of it, what does that leave us with? The Astons and Porsches are already GS legal and have been raced in the series. Other than that there are the ageing Maseratis and M3s, the Camaros from two generations ago and the M4s developed by a small Dutch privateer team, so good luck with getting parts support for those things in the US. Oh, I forgot the $300,000 McLaren...

[merak1974]

An important boost in GT4 (and GTS) racing this year - both in Europe and the US - has been the release of a considerable number of former Maserati Trofeo cars.

Of course, those Trofeo cars were originally developed as GT4 cars (back in 2009), but despite some initial success in the European GT4 series back then, Maserati Corse wasn't able to sell many of them to private teams for use in the GT4 class. Great to see them back in GT4 racing now.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

'Showroom stock' implies that there is a showroom...

Hey, did you know there are actually GT4-spec Msutangs and Camaros? Certainly seems to blow that point out of the water.

GT4 is open to pretty much any road-legal car that can hit the needed performance mark. That's exactly what GS needs to be.

IMSA screwed up big time by allowing the Z28s, but if they can turn back the clock on that and show teams that something like this won't happen again, they should be able to get out of this rut.

The Z28s are not the problem. They're just a convenient excuse. Ford, Aston, etc could easily build cars to match pace with it. The fact that they'd rather complain about it indicates a distinct lack of interest in the class as it exists. It's as if they're rolling on based on momentum derived from already having partners more than anything else.

Reversing course on the Z28s won't change things.

Adding SINs, Ginettas and KTMs would bring nothing but a - probably modest - increase in numbers to the series, but they would contribute absolutely nothing in the way of sponsorship and activation and might even drive away manufacturers that are actually interested in doing that.

The current system isn't doing any better for GS. The best thing to do is to open it up, and why not open it to a class that's getting some interest? Complain about the kit car nature all you want, but it's becoming popular for a reason. The sudden interest from McLaren alone speaks volumes, but the Camaro Z28 speaks even louder - it shows GM -a large volume manufacturer- has serious interest on a class of that level. Give them a reason to do so by way of multiple options for it and they'll build a factory GT4 Camaro immediately.

In fact, the GS Z28s probably only need a couple of minor modifications to fit the bill.

By adopting GT4, the Conti series really has nothing to lose. Worst case scenario, the current downward trend continues. At best, it revitalizes the interest from other manufacturers. Most likely, it'll be somewhere in between - which would not be a bad thing since it would mean the downward trend was stopped.

[merak1974]

Another win for Maserati in the European GT4 Series: http://gt4series.com/romain-monti-wi...ries-at-monza/

[Rcz]

No, GS works.

The ability to buy a car from a lot and then simply adding roll caged and replaceing the cooling and suspension is a good idea. That's the spirit of a stock car series like Conti.

Adding track day cars(like the Z/28) and eliminating perfectly good models that IMSA some how thought were too old was going to end up in disaster.

Under Grand-Am the Conti series was great but under IMSA this series has suffered. So adding GT4 will most like not save GS under the current management.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rcz

No, GS works.

The ability to buy a car from a lot and then simply adding roll caged and replaceing the cooling and suspension is a good idea. That's the spirit of a stock car series like Conti.

Adding track day cars(like the Z/28) and eliminating perfectly good models that IMSA some how thought were too old was going to end up in disaster.

Under Grand-Am the Conti series was great but under IMSA this series has suffered. So adding GT4 will most like not save GS under the current management.

The Z28 has NOTHING to do with the decline of the GS. It's a convenient excuse for people who don't want to do more work.

The ST class is still around to handle the "just convert a showroom car" aspect of things. GS always should have been a step above that - GT4 is exactly the right step.

This "spirit of the series" BS is just that - BS.

[Rcz]

The Z/28 is but a small problem among many othe problems with IMSA. But it is a problem, GM is very ass on who gets what. They won't allow else to have Caddillics, Vettes, or Z/28s. In otherwords they won't share. That Z/28 was created by the manufacturer, hence a factory effort. If you want run a Camero, buy the one that's available to everyone. You shouldn't have to ask permission to use a car to race.

I don't want the series to become a factory based series. It should be privateers only.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Rcz

That Z/28 was created by the manufacturer, hence a factory effort.

So were the Porsches. There were factory built Mustangs for a while, too.

You're singling out the Z28 as a problem when it's no different than what has been done numerous times in the past.

GT4 is the way forward. It's open to kit cars, showroom cars, and everything in between. The entire point of the class is how little changes from the roadgoing version. The only real difference between it and GS is that GT4 allows pretty much any road legal car to be used.

That's a GOOD thing.