[WEC] Kolles Prototype

[Deleted]

http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/24...746_24757.html

Apparently, they are planning some "innovations" to match Rebellion's top speed.

I don't understand the comment about, in the straights, having "more power but also more weight than an LMP2"

[Osella]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but overall 6th and in front of all the p2s is their best result so far?

[carbon_titanium]

kolles and rebellion share the same engine with the same 2015 or 2014 configuration... so if kolles it self doesn't detune their own engines, in theory both cars have the same power output.
Maybe because o new "R18" ispired front section, the CLM produces more drag than the R-one, that sharing the 05 aero is a very low drag/downforce car. Anyway the top speed difference is huge.

[templer]

The Rebellion is a low drag design with not high but sufficient downforce. It seems to be very efficient for a customer car. The aero is also quite simple without a moveable front wing flap or all these turning vanes on the front underbody.

The ByKolles seems to have too much drag Overall which causes the speed differences. The new front end was the first part to solve the drag problem and made the car more efficient. But I think they have also to rework the rear cover with the large bulges (would require a completely redesign of the turbo plenums) and maybe the diffusor exit area. A new monocoque with a higher and smaller front bulkhead would also be helpfull for the new front aero.

I think we will see some further modifications on the car for LM, but I have no idea how large they will be.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Osella

Correct me if I'm wrong, but overall 6th and in front of all the p2s is their best result so far?

I think that is correct.

Also, will we finally see the new for 2016 car at test day? Or did they have it at Spa? I seem to remember talk of an intermediate version at Silverstone.

[Deleted]

The tagline was introducing the "new chassis" sometime later in 2016, whenever that may be. Of course, the very original intent was two new chassis for start of the season already but that got delayed.

With the way Webb speaks here I doubt we see anything else but the same interim 2015-16 at LM, with some tweaks again.

Anyhow, they got some ahead-of-LMP2 8th placements last year, and in those races there were no hybrid car failures.

[Artur]

Well, the rear wing is the aero element that most generates drag and CLM's RW was huge on the previous rounds. So, at LM, they should be using a flatter flap and that, among other things, should put them close to Rebellion

[Deleted]

Well, if that qualifies as "innovation"

CLM should have two goals for LM me thinks.
1) Getting close proximity of the Swiss in Q, at least within 2 seconds
2) Finish the race (properly ie not like last year) and beating at least some LMP2s on pace

Anything more would be bonus

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Well, if that qualifies as "innovation"

CLM should have two goals for LM me thinks.
1) Getting close proximity of the Swiss in Q, at least within 2 seconds
2) Finish the race (properly ie not like last year) and beating at least some LMP2s on pace

Anything more would be bonus

They did get the car to the finish last year, so I'm hopeful they can improve on the lapcount now that they have more running with the car. Personally I don't care where they qualify, but I would like to see them beat all the LMP2's. To me that would be a huge success for the team.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

They did get the car to the finish last year, so I'm hopeful they can improve on the lapcount now that they have more running with the car. Personally I don't care where they qualify, but I would like to see them beat all the LMP2's. To me that would be a huge success for the team.

They already beat all the LMP2s, and Nissans, on quali last year, that's why I said they should aim to get within the realm of Rebellion. Which, judging by the one lap pace of late, they probably will. I'd imagine '27-28 while Rebellion does top '25-26.

It wasn't a legimate finish last year, just as with Nissan, so I guess real finish in the first place would warm their hearts.

I be they are still bit healous to Rebellion now that they are able to benefit of good overall positions.

Anyway, essentially you are agreeing with me here

[TF110]

I wonder if one of these guys drops AER and tries to contact Nissan for their engine? Id like to see that!

[Deleted]

If the price is right.

But I think if there's gonna be one to get it, it must be Onroak whom are seeking for manufacturer partner.

[TF110]

That sounds like a good match. Don't both parties want to represent more of the 'manufacturer' side of things?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

That sounds like a good match. Don't both parties want to represent more of the 'manufacturer' side of things?

Yes. Pretty much from horses mouth

Nissan could get their big logos on sides, like in DW 2012

[knighty]

Originally Posted by TF110

I wonder if one of these guys drops AER and tries to contact Nissan for their engine? Id like to see that!

Yes, I often think about this, but if they end up getting Nissan factory engine, they then have manufacturer status, therefore according to the regs they also need to run a hybrid system, which their cars are not designed for......this would require a new chassis and major re-design and support of a Hybrid parts supplier like Zytek, Magnetti-Marelli or Bosch.........COUGH...... not FlyBrid!

But if they approached Nissan and purchased the entire 3.0L engine project for themselves, they could badge it as their own engine, install it and no need for the hybrid system as they would still be classified as a privateer. But considering the current performance of the AER unit I see no need to do this as its pretty good for a privateer engine.

I dare say the latter is more realistic, as I cannot see Nissan coming back to LMP1, but they might have a garage sale, failing that it will probably end up in the Nissan museum in Japan.

[Mike E]

Nissan have already expressed an interest in supplying privateers.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/n...upply-program/

[knighty]

I would love to see it happen!.......Sounds like there has been some good dialogue going on between the ACO, Nissan and the privateer LMP1 teams both current and prospective........there are only 9 LMP1 cars entered at Lemans this year, but 22 LMP2 cars, and they probably need to double the amount of LMP1's in the next year or so by tempting accross the cream of the LMP2 ranks in order to even up the numbers between LMP1 and LMP2.......it seems like the LMP2 teams know this and held out for the most cost-effective deal, I really dont blame them!

I keep hearing about a Ligier/Onoroak LMP1 design being at the advanced design stage, I guess it just needs cutomers to finance and demand it......personally I'd never be happy with buying an LMP1 chassis from Oreca, as Huges is too far in bed with Toyota for my liking, and lets be honest the Kolles car is a POS......my point being its slim pickings for a decent LMP1 chassis, supply and demand I guess

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by knighty

I would love to see it happen!.......Sounds like there has been some good dialogue going on between the ACO, Nissan and the privateer LMP1 teams both current and prospective........there are only 9 LMP1 cars entered at Lemans this year, but 22 LMP2 cars, and they probably need to double the amount of LMP1's in the next year or so by tempting accross the cream of the LMP2 ranks in order to even up the numbers between LMP1 and LMP2.......it seems like the LMP2 teams know this and held out for the most cost-effective deal, I really dont blame them!

I keep hearing about a Ligier/Onoroak LMP1 design being at the advanced design stage, I guess it just needs cutomers to finance and demand it......personally I'd never be happy with buying an LMP1 chassis from Oreca, as Huges is too far in bed with Toyota for my liking, and lets be honest the Kolles car is a POS......my point being its slim pickings for a decent LMP1 chassis, supply and demand I guess

Doubling the total number of LMP1 at Le Mans is unrealistic. As long as you have the WEC with LMP1 and LMP2 and ELMS with just LMP2 you are going to have an imbalance between the LMP1 and LMP2 car counts at Le Mans.

The big problem is that the current business case for LMP1-P is weak. LMP2 at the ELMS works as does manufacturer (at least for the moment) LMP1-H. What falls in between is a big question, for which the ACO and FIA are currently struggling for answers. It's not just a question of coming up with a rule set that allows Rebellion and Kolles to continue and maybe attract additional entrants but also touches on driver ratings in WEC LMP2.

It would certainly help LMP1-P's future if there was a good, affordable, reliable off-the-shelf solution.

[GT6]

i am sure the ACO will try to find a way but the extra cost for lmp1 will always be difficult for teams to justify if they are only ever likely to get a minor podium at best

[Irie]

Originally Posted by knighty

Yes, I often think about this, but if they end up getting Nissan factory engine, they then have manufacturer status, therefore according to the regs they also need to run a hybrid system, which their cars are not designed for......this would require a new chassis and major re-design and support of a Hybrid parts supplier like Zytek, Magnetti-Marelli or Bosch.........COUGH...... not FlyBrid!

But if they approached Nissan and purchased the entire 3.0L engine project for themselves, they could badge it as their own engine, install it and no need for the hybrid system as they would still be classified as a privateer. But considering the current performance of the AER unit I see no need to do this as its pretty good for a privateer engine.

I dare say the latter is more realistic, as I cannot see Nissan coming back to LMP1, but they might have a garage sale, failing that it will probably end up in the Nissan museum in Japan.

I don't think this is the case. Private teams are allowed to buy engines from manufacturers. As did Rebellion with their Toyota engines.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Irie

I don't think this is the case. Private teams are allowed to buy engines from manufacturers. As did Rebellion with their Toyota engines.

Correct

[skycafe]

Thanks for that clarification about the engine. Isn't the chassis supposed to be constructed in-house, or can it be purchased off the shelf? I know Rebellion was Lola originally, but thought when the 'privateer' sub-class was created that came with requirements to either build, or substantially customize-as in bodywork changes?

[TF110]

I never saw any requirements for that. They could use an lmp2 as long as it fit the regulations. I think the biggest difference is the freedom to develop the aero. But supposedly next year's lmp2's will have the same 1900mm width.

[skycafe]

Ah, thanks!

[Damian Baldi]

Here an onboard video when it was called Lotus team, but the cockpit it's the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMahjry5fHQ