Spectator behaviour at Silverstone test & lack of crowd control

[bigjon]

As mentioned in the other thread people simply ignored the restrictions as to where on the track to be - but were seemingly unchallenged until it was too late - there were spectators everywhere so eventually i decided to walk the track too

however, far worse, people were ignoring crowd barriers and walking right up to catch fencing for photos / videos etc and even climbing onto the top of fencing (at bridge)

this sort of behaviour will surely prompt s'stone to close tests to the public - its just stupid!

[ralf fan]

hmm.... knowlesy at Silverstone = crowd trouble.... coincidence?

The guy is a menace i tell you...

[Knowlesy]

bigjon, I was walking up to the catch fencing for photos myself.

To me, the risk is minimal and if I want to take that risk, that is my prerogative.

You give the impression of riots and anarchy....when realy, it was just people milling about, taking advantage of the chance to get a teeny bit closer to the cars, because the public at large is not allowed to see anything it seems.

Saddest part of the day was standing opposite the McLaren pit and seeing that they had erected a great shield in front of their garages.....opening it only to allow the cars out. Pretty sad, if you ask me. What are they trying to hide? How to be slower than Renault?

[bigjon]

i've been to tests for years both as a spectator on the terraces and with paddock / centre passes

today was one of the busiest; i have never seen crowds of people gathered at the catch fencing; the FIA / teams will get unhappy; silverstone get an earful; testing becomes charged or closed to public.

there were, i think, some issues a few years back and i'm told s'stone considered to future of free public access then but dont know how true that is

[bigjon]

most teams use screens for testing; it is after all where they develop new parts; for this reason cars are covered if they are brought back on flatbeds as i'm sure you also saw today; or in luizzi's case bits of car are covered!

[Flat12-Aircool]

Originally Posted by bigjon

As mentioned in the other thread people simply ignored the restrictions as to where on the track to be - but were seemingly unchallenged until it was too late - there were spectators everywhere so eventually i decided to walk the track too

however, far worse, people were ignoring crowd barriers and walking right up to catch fencing for photos / videos etc and even climbing onto the top of fencing (at bridge)

this sort of behaviour will surely prompt s'stone to close tests to the public - its just stupid!

I was there today, and yes I was one of the people who "invaded" the outer reaches of the circuit. Big Deal!

Basically the problem was that in the morning at Bridge opposite the farm complex there were no stewards blocking access to Abbey and beyond, and it wasn't until 2:00 pm that they decided to do something about it! If there are gaps in the barriers and there are NO stewards, what are people to think?

On your second point, at first I did respect the rules on not taking photo's next to the catch fencing, but when I saw score's of other people all around the track doing it without any steward chastisement then I thought I'd have a go myself.

And as for closing the tests to the public then Dream On! For all the so-called "crowd troubles" there weren't any serious problems that I saw, certainly nothing a bit more organisation on the stewarding front couldn't solve.

As for Test Days staying free, I think there's an issue with Uncle Bernie if they wanted to charge people to watch Test days. But I would gladly pay £5-£10 for what I saw today, as I sat in places that would cost £200+ come Grand Prix day, and got more than just 2 hours entertainment.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Flat12-Aircool

I was there today, and yes I was one of the people who "invaded" the outer reaches of the circuit. Big Deal!

Basically the problem was that in the morning at Bridge opposite the farm complex there were no stewards blocking access to Abbey and beyond, and it wasn't until 2:00 pm that they decided to do something about it! If there are gaps in the barriers and there are NO stewards, what are people to think?

On your second point, at first I did respect the rules on not taking photo's next to the catch fencing, but when I saw score's of other people all around the track doing it without any steward chastisement then I thought I'd have a go myself.

And as for closing the tests to the public then Dream On! For all the so-called "crowd troubles" there weren't any serious problems that I saw, certainly nothing a bit more organisation on the stewarding front couldn't solve.

As for Test Days staying free, I think there's an issue with Uncle Bernie if they wanted to charge people to watch Test days. But I would gladly pay £5-£10 for what I saw today, as I sat in places that would cost £200+ come Grand Prix day, and got more than just 2 hours entertainment.

Do you have any understanding on how motorsport is operated and run? I'd guess not....

Test sessions are not by their nature public sessions, tracks have over the years allowed fans in to see the cars as an (unusual) gesture of goodwill to give fans some opportunity to see the cars.

Under the MSA and FIA regulations if a circuit or organiser charges entry for a session it brings in a whole new raft of rules and reg's for them to comply with, including an additional insurance premium, this adds a whole lot of additional cost and hassle to an organiser who frankly isn't going to bother for test days. Plus I can't imagine either the FOA or the FOM allowing it to happen - it's probably expressly prohibited in the circuit contracts for this to happen anyway.

If a circuit/test organiser is faced with an option of paying for security and stewarding on a test day or shutting the day to the public, what do you think they are going to choose? There is no way anyone is going to stump up money for the orgainsation of security for no return and as said they are not able to charge.

If people persist in this type of behaviour there will only be one result and that is tests at Silverstone being closed to the public, no doubt with all the moaning and winging about how dreadful that is.

As for saying "If there are gaps in the barriers and there are NO stewards, what are people to think", that's quite breathtaking - how about a little self control? how about a little common sense? There are always ways on to a circuit, whether they are marshals gates or media gates, at "big" meetings they might be manned but the rest of the time they won't be. That isn't an invite for every prat and his wife to go wandering around the track in amongst the cars is it?

I'd imagine the writing is on the wall already, don't be surprised at what happens next...

[chunterer]

Oh dear, I think i'll just say:

Please rearrange the following words into a coherent sentence:

Word have oneself a with!

Honestly though, this is a fuss over nothing Piglet, there were lot of people there sure, more than i can remember at an F1 test since early/mid nineties but back then people were doing things like getting as close to the fences as possible and wandering wherever they like because they're excited about seeing the cars and drivers.

That's the human being for you!

I saw none doing anything remotely considered silly or dangerous and somebody usually came along and told them to move eventuially anyway.

[marzF1rocks]

i can understand teams wanting to be secrative.

But at the end of the day, were the people that watch and comment on there progress. Its only fair we get a glimps.

No people paying to go. No F1

[Az]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Saddest part of the day was standing opposite the McLaren pit and seeing that they had erected a great shield in front of their garages.....opening it only to allow the cars out. Pretty sad, if you ask me. What are they trying to hide? How to be slower than Renault?

They were forced to do that and then actually close the garage doors because half a dozen photographers were continuosly taking photos when the car was being worked on in the garage - especially when Kimi Raikkonen was pushed back to the garage after hydraulic problems. I agree the screen is a little bit OTT but there are internal parts that are quite sensitive.

As for the test it was really enjoyable, Wednesday possibly being the busiest I've ever seen (last 3 years anyway). Really needed some marshalls around the track though, it's a worry people could walk just about anywhere without any supervision. It wasn't like back in the Mansell days

[MikeHoyer]

Originally Posted by marzF1rocks

only fair we get a glimps.

Well not necessarily. How about if you worked for some company, and you were trying to develop a revolutionary new product away from your competitors eyes? Would you let me "have a glimpse", just because I've bought stuff from you before?

[Jordi]

Montmeló testing is charged already, and sometimes Renault brings guests and they are allowed to be right on the fencing...

We're also allowed on the paddock. It used to be free if were a member of the Circuit and you had an hour of free paddock walk, but now it's 20 minute- group-with-guide visits.

If you think Silverstone is too much, hordes of people waited for Alonso here. In the paddock. If you think that about 10,000 people are members of the circuit, and that likely 500 or 1,000 of them can be in a mid-week test, it's not unreasonable to see that sometimes 100 or 200 people at the same time (not more were allowed in the paddock) were hanging outside of Renault's tent.

[Stone Man]

I seem to remember that back in the 80's they charged to get in at Brands Hatch....mind you they did provide a commentary!

[jethro10]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

bigjon, I was walking up to the catch fencing for photos myself.

To me, the risk is minimal and if I want to take that risk, that is my prerogative.

It's not fair though if a driver kills a spectator and has to live with that for the rest of his life. Surely it his prerogative to not have to be put in that position?

[brands]

I went yesterday to take photographs. When I arrived, 10ish, the circuit was only opened from Bridge to the main straight. That is unusual for the big pre GP test when it's normally open up to Abbey.
When I returned to the track from the car later I asked a steward about heading for Farm and was told it's off limits.....which was strange since both he and I could see dozens of people in the Farm enclosure. There was a row of crush barriers blocking off access to Farm and beyond but people were simply ducking under the 3 foot high, single pole, railing at the end of the barricade and getting in. I just headed back to Luffield.

The other thing I noticed was that the pro photographers gates were all locked and that no attempt was made during the day to move the public away from right behind the fences. I assume Silverstone decided with the manpower available, namely about 5 stewards, that all they could/would do is at least stop the public getting trackside of the fences.

Silversone made a big deal of this test week, lots of stuff in the media.....maybe that was a mistake given the amount of people it attracted ?

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by jethro10

It's not fair though if a driver kills a spectator and has to live with that for the rest of his life. Surely it his prerogative to not have to be put in that position?

Well it would be a freak incident that kills a spectator.

[Flat12-Aircool]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Do you have any understanding on how motorsport is operated and run? I'd guess not....

Test sessions are not by their nature public sessions, tracks have over the years allowed fans in to see the cars as an (unusual) gesture of goodwill to give fans some opportunity to see the cars.

Under the MSA and FIA regulations if a circuit or organiser charges entry for a session it brings in a whole new raft of rules and reg's for them to comply with, including an additional insurance premium, this adds a whole lot of additional cost and hassle to an organiser who frankly isn't going to bother for test days. Plus I can't imagine either the FOA or the FOM allowing it to happen - it's probably expressly prohibited in the circuit contracts for this to happen anyway.

If a circuit/test organiser is faced with an option of paying for security and stewarding on a test day or shutting the day to the public, what do you think they are going to choose? There is no way anyone is going to stump up money for the orgainsation of security for no return and as said they are not able to charge.

If people persist in this type of behaviour there will only be one result and that is tests at Silverstone being closed to the public, no doubt with all the moaning and winging about how dreadful that is.

As for saying "If there are gaps in the barriers and there are NO stewards, what are people to think", that's quite breathtaking - how about a little self control? how about a little common sense? There are always ways on to a circuit, whether they are marshals gates or media gates, at "big" meetings they might be manned but the rest of the time they won't be. That isn't an invite for every prat and his wife to go wandering around the track in amongst the cars is it?

I'd imagine the writing is on the wall already, don't be surprised at what happens next...

What an over reaction! Basically thats 7 paragraphs telling me little that I didn't already know.

All it would have taken was before the circuit opened for somebody to actually chain & lock the barriers at Bridge together so that people could not access Abbey in anyway. Surely somebody in Silverstone managment with their High Salarie's should have realised that a unsecured barrier, with no locks and large gaps in it, and above all not 1 Security steward would be breached by a curious public.

As for the point about nobody willing to pay for security, well firstly Silverstone get paid for the use of their track, their Food Outlets etc do good business and it provides good promotion for a potentially lucrative event later in the year. Personally I don't think the circuit needed anymore Security or Stewards yesterday than they had. Only for them to be deployed in more sensible locations, earlier in the day rather than at the 2:00 pm "Clampdown".

And as regards future tests, you must be a person who always views "life's glass" as being half empty. Surely what Silverstone and the FIA etc would learn from yesterday is that peoples interest in F1 is on the up again, and if the crowd levels are anything to go by then it bodes well for a successful and $old-out British Grand prix.

[pforrester]

I went yesterday (Wednesday) and thoroughly enjoyed it. Upon entering the circuit at Bridge - and based upon what I'd read here on 10 Tenths - I immediately started heading round Luffield and up the pit straight. Expecting it to be closed off past Copse, I naturally carried on walking round when I saw people heading for Becketts. And so it carried on, that every time I got to a new bit of the track I only ever saw more people further on.

Only when I got to Stowe (!) was there a chap with his van, who suggested that I make my way toward the main entrance as "I wasn't supposed to be there". Down at the Vale people had set up in their chairs (and I don't blame them, because the view's excellent there), and I assume they were told the same thing. Only when I got back round to Bridge and had to hop over a barrier that said 'Officials only' on the other side did I realise that it probably wasn't intended to have the whole circuit accessible.

I'm not making a judgment on anyone, but if Silverstone were really bothered about keeping everybody in one area then why was the first thing telling me so at the opposite end of the circuit? And if I'd had a better camera with me then I might have considered standing up at the fencing - yesterday was a great opportunity to get the kind of photos that I hadn't realised possible after my visits to the last two grands prix at Silverstone.

[Sodemo]

The answer would be to have more of the circuit open, but with tighter access.

If the current Bridge to Copse area was open, then a small section at Beckets, then and small section at Vale, then there wouldn't be any need for security vans, and marshalls running about chasing spectators like chickens.

[downforce]

Assuming Kimi's car suffered a suspension failure like at N'ring last season and his wheel tethers failed letting go a perfectly shiny Michelin aimed at the 'thoughtless'* mobs at Farm in Silverstone.

The speeding wheel [now a missile at 350KMPH!] would not pose any danger to the 'thoughtless'* mobster desperately squeezing his ordinary small-lensed camera through the catch fences at Silverstone because it would have collected the immortal FIA-certified 'safe' photographer who hid behind his reinforced carbon fibre 800mm lense about 20ft from Kimi's McChrome totally exposed and splattered him all over the now already feeble catch fence.

His FIA-certifed flesh would have absorbed the shock and acted like an arrester cable converting the furious speed from the missile to a meer bounce across Farm and into the 'thoughtless' mobs souvenir hunting rucksack.

So dont worry dear Worriers. We the F1 fans who arent blessed with that might-is-right paddock pass are indeed quite safe behind those mist nets.

Copse corner was by invite only?

[Paddockman]

Originally Posted by downforce

Assuming Kimi's car suffered a suspension failure like at N'ring last season and his wheel tethers failed letting go a perfectly shiny Michelin aimed at the 'thoughtless'* mobs at Farm in Silverstone.

The speeding wheel [now a missile at 350KMPH!] would not pose any danger to the 'thoughtless'* mobster desperately squeezing his ordinary small-lensed camera through the catch fences at Silverstone because it would have collected the immortal FIA-certified 'safe' photographer who hid behind his reinforced carbon fibre 800mm lense about 20ft from Kimi's McChrome totally exposed and splattered him all over the now already feeble catch fence.

His FIA-certifed flesh would have absorbed the shock and acted like an arrester cable converting the furious speed from the missile to a meer bounce across Farm and into the 'thoughtless' mobs souvenir hunting rucksack.

So dont worry dear Worriers. We the F1 fans who arent blessed with that might-is-right paddock pass are indeed quite safe behind those mist nets.

Copse corner was by invite only?

Best Post I've read on here since viewing forum WELL SAID!!!!!!!!

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by downforce

Assuming Kimi's car suffered a suspension failure like at N'ring last season and his wheel tethers failed letting go a perfectly shiny Michelin aimed at the 'thoughtless'* mobs at Farm in Silverstone.

The speeding wheel [now a missile at 350KMPH!] would not pose any danger to the 'thoughtless'* mobster desperately squeezing his ordinary small-lensed camera through the catch fences at Silverstone because it would have collected the immortal FIA-certified 'safe' photographer who hid behind his reinforced carbon fibre 800mm lense about 20ft from Kimi's McChrome totally exposed and splattered him all over the now already feeble catch fence.

His FIA-certifed flesh would have absorbed the shock and acted like an arrester cable converting the furious speed from the missile to a meer bounce across Farm and into the 'thoughtless' mobs souvenir hunting rucksack.

So dont worry dear Worriers. We the F1 fans who arent blessed with that might-is-right paddock pass are indeed quite safe behind those mist nets.

Copse corner was by invite only?

It is this kind of attitude that worries me, these people should be no where near a circuit for their safety and ours. These are the kind of morons who thought it was a good idea to invade the track after the British GP's of the Mansell era whilst the cars further down the field were still racing.

[Knowlesy]

I think that is exaggerating things rather.

[JohnEboy]

It was my first time at Silverstone and first time seeing current F1 on circuit and as an amateur snappper who enjoys motorsport, I have to say it was great at the test on Wed It was great to be able to get up close to the fence to take the shots and spectate, and as it was my first time there I honestly had no idea that that was not allowed ! when I arrived at about 11 o'clock there were many people milling about on the grassy area by the fence , it looked so normal at at one point I had 3 silvertone people standing behind me who said nothing . I sincerely hope my innocenent actions and those of others do not contribute to a loss or heavy restrictions to future test for spectators , it was an awsome day and kudos to Silverstone for the freebee.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by downforce

Assuming Kimi's car suffered a suspension failure like at N'ring last season and his wheel tethers failed letting go a perfectly shiny Michelin aimed at the 'thoughtless'* mobs at Farm in Silverstone.

The speeding wheel [now a missile at 350KMPH!] would not pose any danger to the 'thoughtless'* mobster desperately squeezing his ordinary small-lensed camera through the catch fences at Silverstone because it would have collected the immortal FIA-certified 'safe' photographer who hid behind his reinforced carbon fibre 800mm lense about 20ft from Kimi's McChrome totally exposed and splattered him all over the now already feeble catch fence.

His FIA-certifed flesh would have absorbed the shock and acted like an arrester cable converting the furious speed from the missile to a meer bounce across Farm and into the 'thoughtless' mobs souvenir hunting rucksack.

So dont worry dear Worriers. We the F1 fans who arent blessed with that might-is-right paddock pass are indeed quite safe behind those mist nets.

Copse corner was by invite only?

You appear not to understand a number of things:

Firstly, catch fences. If you are leaning against a catch fence which takes a heavy impact, you WILL be hurt. The impact doesn't have to be directly in front of you - shockwaves will travel through the fencing, possibly 50 metres or more from the point of impact.

Secondly, professional photographers. As part of the conditions of their media pass they will have extensive personal & public liability insurance & will have signed an indemnity form. Have you?

Thirdly, prohibited areas. 'Prohibited' means just that; no ifs, no buts, doesn't matter whether or not there's somebody there to tell you shouldn't be there. I assume Silverstone is like other circuits - prohibited areas should be clearly signed.