F2 Brands Hatch

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Lam Pak

i dunno wy my post was cut off. i just want justice. the most extreme of the things you cant say would be very shocking to most readers. its time to f2 and fia think in safety. too much in papers and pressreleases and reality is what we see. cars are crashing and wheels go off very easy. karajelanen is correct. somethin is worng. i never see this in f3 or formual renault losing wheels like this. tell i am wrong and simple sign test could determine if this is true or false.we ourselves are evolving.

Lam Pak, you're obviously quite passionate about this, but nothing is to be gained by throwing around blame. Particularly if there isn't actually anyone to blame.

Motorsport is dangerous. Everything that can be done is done to make it as safe as possible, but the simple fact of the matter is, sometimes things go wrong.

Drivers choose which series they race in. They know their cars and they know the risks. They always have the choice to move to a different racing class or simply walk away from the sport if they feel that it's not safe enough.

The only way to ensure you don't get hurt in motorsport is not to be there.

When something as terrible as this happens, the first impulse is always to find someone to blame, but there's nothing to indicate that there was any blatent negligence here. The drivers all knew their cars, knew what safety features were on those cars and chose to race in them with that full knowledge. They weren't lied to, no-one forced them into the car. Ultimately, it is always and only their decision whether or not it is safe for them to race.

It's a hard truth to deal with, particularly with events as tragic as this, but it doesn't change anything.

[terence]

Quite right too! Henry came from a rather famous family where Racing is "in the blood",he of all people would have been very aware of the risk involved.It could have been anyone at any event throughout the world for any given reason.It was unfortunately,one of those distastfull things that happen occasionally throughout our live's.There is no 100% way of stopping wheel's coming off,all that can be done is minimise that risk.

[EvilPumpkin]

That's not to say that I don't think an examination of the safety features of the cars should now be done with a view to making them safer. Obviously the tethers they have are not working as well as they should and, while I don't think there was any intent to skimp on safety, now that this issue has been so tragically brought to light, it needs to be addressed. That doesn't mean that anyone (or any organisation) did anything wrong - but now that we know about this problem, it can't be ignored going forward.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Lam Pak

i dunno wy my post was cut off. i just want justice. the most extreme of the things you cant say would be very shocking to most readers. its time to f2 and fia think in safety. too much bull**** in papers and pressreleases and reality is what we see. cars are crashing and wheels go off very easy. karajelanen is correct. somethin is worng. i never see this in f3 or formual renault losing wheels like this. tell i am wrong and simple sign test could determine if this is true or false.we ourselves are evolving.

It is perfectly possible to raise questions about safety issues without taking the sort of tone you employed in your previous post.

[runshaw]

Of course there are questions being raised and rightly so. But I can't help thinking that isn't it a known fact that in single-seaters the driver's head is still exposed somewhat? Of course there are now high cockpit sides, but the front of the head is still vulnerable. I read this accident as a freak one, where unfortunately the wheel of Clarke's car just happened to bounce and hit the most vulnerable part of Henry's helmet straight on. Blame doesn't come into this, but obviously wheel tethers seem like an issue in this case.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by runshaw

Of course there are questions being raised and rightly so. But I can't help thinking that isn't it a known fact that in single-seaters the driver's head is still exposed somewhat? Of course there are now high cockpit sides, but the front of the head is still vulnerable. I read this accident as a freak one, where unfortunately the wheel of Clarke's car just happened to bounce and hit the most vulnerable part of Henry's helmet straight on. Blame doesn't come into this, but obviously wheel tethers seem like an issue in this case.

Yup, if through this they strenghten the wheel tethers they use, then it's a positive step. It'd just be a shame it wasn't prompted by a near miss, rather than a fatal accident.

[terence]

Tether or not there is still no getting away from the fact that a wheel can 'escape'.The tether can only be affixed to a non revolving component such as the Upright,then that comes into the question of "Is it strong enough",did the securing bolt shear? etc etc. The questions will just keep coming and coming,another point being,would the wheel have been launched in the same manor if it had not been tethered? Ad infinitum!

[jab]

The problem with tethers are that if you make them too strong, they can pull the cars apart which could make it even more dangerous

Also a lot of it has to do with the angle of impact and the type of barrier. Kubica in Australia and Clarke at Brands hit tyre walls at similar angles, whereas in the IRL, where they also use tethers, you don't see many wheels off despite the higher speeds

It's worth thinking about but sometimes things like this are unavoidable

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by jab

Kubica in Australia and Clarke at Brands hit tyre walls at similar angles

You can not help noticing though that seemingly those two incidents were rather different in their violencity. That's why some (including myself) have the impression that tethers need to be looked at for this car.

[Stephen Green]

May I suggest that we all read Jonathan Palmers statement on the MSV website
www.motorsportvision.co.uk

[jab]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

You can not help noticing though that seemingly those two incidents were rather different in their violencity.

Well, I wouldn't have said the speeds were that different - neither were going particularly fast. The only difference is Kubica went in head-on and Clarke went in rear-first

That's why some (including myself) have the impression that tethers need to be looked at for this car.

But they're the same as on the F1 cars, and probably most junior formulae these days. So that would mean looking at all tethers on cars from a lot of other series as well

I honestly don't believe there is a problem. Tethers have always been unreliable and always will be because you can never fully account for all eventualities in crash tests and the like. The areas I'm most concerned about are side impacts, T-bones and the like, but again difficult to solve

[terence]

I would also suggest,after reading that,that in respect of Henry,this thread be closed,there is nothing anyone on here can do about this tragedy.

[Valker]

Originally Posted by jab

But they're the same as on the F1 cars, and probably most junior formulae these days.

Doesn't F1 nowadays have double tethers while all the other categories have only one per wheel?

[VIVA GT]

Sorry, I don't want to take anything away from the sad story that has started this discussion with what may appear to be a flippant comment, but one thing that worries me is that, if the wheel tethers are strengthened it could lead to additional (and heavier) components being ripped off with the wheel in a high speed accident.

[davyboy]

On a more philosophical level, it would appear that this was a freak accident - a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Incredibly sad though it may be, any of us could fall victim to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Only by the grace of God/luck/whatever you want to call it, is it not us. Think of a fallen tree landing on a passing car on the road, victims on the ground of the Lockerbie disaster, tsunami victims from a few years ago.

More information may emerge when the authorities investigate fully, but we ought to be prepared for them to pronouce it nothing more than a highly improbable freak accident.

In an attempt to footnote this discussion and show our own respect to Henry and the Surtees family, maybe its best that we remain silent until the full facts are known, investigated and published rather than debating/surmising on the basis of partial information and/or hearsay.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sorry, I don't want to take anything away from the sad story that has started this discussion with what may appear to be a flippant comment, but one thing that worries me is that, if the wheel tethers are strengthened it could lead to additional (and heavier) components being ripped off with the wheel in a high speed accident.

Well said

[ghinzani]

Isnt a Turnip a Swede? Anyway Im surprised this hasnt been pulled by Crash yet as they have, perhaps understandably, pulled a few others:
http://www.crash.net/f3/comments/150...or_racing.html

[crmalcolm]

As commented, the exposure of the head in a single-seater is a potential for risk.
The head can be struck by any item of debris, be it bodywork, wheels, or possibly even wildlife.
Should the exposure of the head be looked at possibly and consideration made for something akin to a fighter aircraft cockpit canopy?

[bella]

thread closed pending a discussion amongst the moderators. in the meantime please respect the condolences thread and keep speculation to yourselves.

many thanks.