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10 Jul 2002, 10:43 (Ref:330938)
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#1 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,451
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Barber Dodge
Since my friend Josh Beaulieu now rces in Barber Dodge, I have started paying attention to this series (never remember seeing it before). Looks to me as if there are a great many competitive drivers in the series, although as usual the top three are way better than the rest. What do you think of Barber Dodge as a feeder series, compared to Atlantics? Would you rather drive for Atlantics or Dodge if you had your choice of ladder series?
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__________________
"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore |
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10 Jul 2002, 11:44 (Ref:330999)
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#2 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 153
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From what I've seen the Barber Dodge series is more suited to drivers just starting out in this style of racing where as Atlantics are for more experienced drivers. I saw the Barber Dodge series run at Mid-Ohio last year after the CART and Indy Lights races. It was a pretty good little race from what I can remember. I think it's great and personally I'd probably rather drive in the Barber Dodge series because I don't have any experience! Of course with my lead foot and lack of patience I'd probably be demoted to racing lawnmowers or something.
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__________________
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older." - Mario Andretti |
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10 Jul 2002, 14:01 (Ref:331101)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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That's how it appears... Although the car specs are actually not too bad in barber Dodge..according to their website they have V6s that have a peak BHP at 260...which isn't much different from Atlantics.
I think the main difference is how the series are oriented. In Barber Dodge, the emphasis seems to be on driver development without the team aspect. From the website, I gather that not only are all of the cars the same, but each driver is assured the same resources and the assistance of a driving coach. (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning about this series) Atlantics on the other hand, is more of a Cart lite, with a very similar format and similar teams. While all of the teams are given the same cars, they do not have the same resources, and are not guided in anyway by Cart. Thus, the drivers and engineers have a lot more to learn on their own. Really, they're just different levels in the Cart ladder series. Both contain drivers that will undoubtably make it to Cart and maybe (ughh...) F1. Also, It should be noted that one of the prizes for winning in Barber Dodge is a scholarship to help race in Atlantics. |
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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10 Jul 2002, 15:35 (Ref:331159)
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#4 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,451
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Yes, they do have driving coaches and race engineers assigned to the drivers and they don't spend a lot of time patting the guys on the back either. According to Josh's experience, they switch them from car to car on occasion if the original car is having problems they can't fix, which is difficult in one sense -- you just get used to one car and then you have to re-learn on another -- but good in another as it makes you aware of all the different characteristics and able to deal with them without a lot of fuss.
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__________________
"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore |
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10 Jul 2002, 16:06 (Ref:331177)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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I thought the paddock looked a little strange in Toronto with all of the cars together, and no engineers, drivers or mechanics in site, but I guess that explains it all. OTOH, it should make for some incredibly cometitive races.
CAn't wait to FINALLY catch one in Montreal... |
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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10 Jul 2002, 20:35 (Ref:331369)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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I've seen Barber Dodge racing on Belle Isle a few times, also walking the paddock. Great stuff, no doubt. But I must consider it as a step below Atlantics.
Atlantics are a forum not only for driver development, but also for team development. Engineers, mechanics, pitcrew and the like. The cars are larger than the Barbers, and feature an aerodynamic undertray. Therefore they are much more similar to a ChampCar. |
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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10 Jul 2002, 23:13 (Ref:331485)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,451
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I guess I should make the acquaintance of an Atlantics driver next time I go to a race and get him to explain the difference to me -- could make a good article, in connection with what Josh tells me about Dodge!
Josh is off to Cleveland where hopefully he will have better luck and not hit any walls or be punted by anybody. The Dodge race will be on next Saturday on Speed, I think. |
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__________________
"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore |
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11 Jul 2002, 07:53 (Ref:331575)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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Liz, I think that would make for an excellent article. I know that I am curious.
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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11 Jul 2002, 15:58 (Ref:331968)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,451
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Can anybody tell me the name of a driver who has moved to Atlantics from Dodge? That would be the ideal man to interview. The only Atlantics drivers I know came there from FFord.
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__________________
"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore |
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11 Jul 2002, 16:49 (Ref:331987)
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#10 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 732
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Liz, sounds like that would make an interesting piece.
A quick scan of the driver profiles at the Atlantics web site revealed the following possibilities: Michael Valiante - 1999 Barber ROTY Alex Gurney - 1998 Barber, moved to Atlantic in 1999 Ryan Hunter-Reay - 2000 Barber ROTY The Barber Dodge series has been around for a while now... interesting that it is starting to get a little more publicity. Could Bobby Rahal and Danica Patrick have something to do with that (pardon the rhetorical cynicism)? Maybe with the demise of Indylites it is now playing a more important role as a training/feeder series. |
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11 Jul 2002, 17:11 (Ref:332001)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,451
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I have made the acquaintance of Ryan Hunter-Reay so will see if I can speak to him at Montreal. Thanks for the leg work, Emfa.
I think Barber Dodge was named an "official" feeder series this season, wasn't it? |
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__________________
"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore |
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11 Jul 2002, 17:14 (Ref:332004)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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No, I don't think Danica has anything to do with that... she;s only run 1 race! Although if she does well, she might attrack more attention to the series. I think it's the second one...
Now that Indylites is gone, Barber Dodge and Atlantics are the two main Cart feeder series that act as support races at many Cart events. When Indylites was around, Barber Dodge was often not a support race at Cart events - that's all changed. For some reason, Barber Dodge doesn't seem to run on the ovals, unlike Atlantics... But, that's probably a good thing as ovals aren't hard to learn if you know road courses. Oh, and if you want to talk to someone about that.. I'd suggest Valiente, the Atlantic championship leader. Last edited by Jay; 11 Jul 2002 at 17:15. |
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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14 Jul 2002, 23:47 (Ref:333930)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 860
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Liz. talk with Nic Rondet. He did BDPS, moved to Atlantics, moved back to BDPS last season, won the title and is in Atlantics again. He'll tell you the diff. So can RHR, Moran jr, Valiante, Yasukawa, Fogarty, Gurney & Sepp Koster. Most winning F.Atlantic drivers came from BDPS not FFord. Even Macri has some BDPS experience.
 If you want to go to Champcars, BDPS is the formula to drive in. Just look at the top 10 in points from F.Atlantic, I think all but Diaz did BDPS. Ryley did Regional Barber Dodge... 
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15 Jul 2002, 01:12 (Ref:333947)
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#14 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,754
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Quote:
That means, she's pretty - and that's it. |
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__________________
Visit The Motorsport Memorial |
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15 Jul 2002, 07:47 (Ref:334038)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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Oooh yeah! That's it, baby! That's it!
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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15 Jul 2002, 13:18 (Ref:334244)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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Muzza, she's virtually unknown in American motor racing. I think more Brits know about her from her performances there than Americans do... but, I wish her the best of luck all the same. IT would really be great to have a competitive female in Cart..
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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15 Jul 2002, 13:37 (Ref:334255)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,754
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Hello, Jay,
I also wish Danica Patrick all the best - who wouldn't? - but she is far from being the best American female driver around. For instance, Sara Senske is a much more complete driver, and could be quite competitive. Sadly she does not have the budget needed to move up the ladder. Lynn St. James has mentored Sara for years, and helped her to lure sponsors, but Lynn's own budget is quite limited, and things have been tough for Senske. I talked to Lynn in Indianapolis back in May and she said that she would love to have the means to put her own team together, and then sign Sara as main driver. On the other hand, Danica's father, TJ, is a very well known person in the United States racing circles. That, plus Danica's "media-friendliness", is what brings her to the headlines. |
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__________________
Visit The Motorsport Memorial |
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16 Jul 2002, 01:06 (Ref:334638)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,919
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I guess being a woman, media friendly and somewhat competitive just isn't enough these days to get you on the starting grid of a racing series. Surely if there were more female racers around, perhaps more woman could be attracted to go to a race? Be it CART, Nascar, touring car?
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__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever... |
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16 Jul 2002, 01:46 (Ref:334656)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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There are actually a fair number of women that go to the races...usually dragged there by there male partners.
I always find it fascinating to see so many guys trying to please their girlfriends or wives at the track. If you could find a nice girl that loved racing, wow, what a catch that woudl be! |
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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16 Jul 2002, 01:53 (Ref:334661)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,451
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Lots of us girls actually like racing for its own sake. And since we go to oogle the guys in the cars, we are not keen on having any of those cars wasted on girls!
 Fiorentina, thanks for the tips on whom to contact. I should get a good article out of that idea! |
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__________________
"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore |
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16 Jul 2002, 03:58 (Ref:334680)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,301
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For a very long time the Barber Series has been a support race at Laguna Seca. It makes sense as Barber has a school there. I have been under the impression that the main Cart feeders in recent years in the US were Barber or Formula Ford, then Atlantics, the Lights, then Champ Cars. I may be mistaken but I'm quite sure Micheal Andretti and Al Jr. came to CART through the Barber Series and the rest of the chain.
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__________________
A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true freind will be sitting next to you saying "Damn...that was fun!" |
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16 Jul 2002, 04:06 (Ref:334683)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,301
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A little further checking shows Montoya ('94), Brack ('93)champion, Herta ('91)champion, and Gidley ('96) came through the Barber Series also.
Last edited by Flatspot; 16 Jul 2002 at 04:11. |
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__________________
A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true freind will be sitting next to you saying "Damn...that was fun!" |
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16 Jul 2002, 16:47 (Ref:335105)
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#23 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,451
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I remember Montoya did but didn't know about the others.
Josh wrecked again at Cleveland  so no joy there. But he was very fast until then so I think there is good evidence he's getting the hang of it!
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__________________
"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore |
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16 Jul 2002, 16:59 (Ref:335112)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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Yeah, good qualifying run for JOsh, but a rough race for him. From the sounds of it, he's come to grasps with the cars quite well and should be on the top step of the podium very soon.
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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16 Jul 2002, 17:02 (Ref:335113)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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btw, technically this topic should be in the single seaters forum...but it's doing alright here I guess...
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__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
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