BWRDC 40 Woman race at Silverstone Nov 2nd

[Derwent Motorsp]

A quite shocking post from Al. He must be a caveman!
I think there is an "old farts" race at Brands soon for older drivers. Does Al think that is wrong as well?
Surely the whole point of the race was to publicise girls racing and to get more doing it?
Yes it is great we can all compete on even terms but it is all about fun surely? I know some of the lasses racing in that event and they are all very capable but we do need to be encouraging more younger girls (and indeed guys) to take part.
I say well dome to all of them and do it again next year with a great deal more publicity.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Celia Stevens

Thank-you midgetman, for your utterly sensible and down to earth reply!

You're reading it very differently to me then! Seems to have missed the point entirely.

Originally Posted by Celia Stevens

We don't want to 'segregate' ourselves that is obvious

But that's exactly what you did?

Originally Posted by Celia Stevens

and as Sue rightly said once we are out there on the track half the time no-one knows whether we are male, female or otherwise and no-one cares, just go for it!

Which is the whole point - why go out of your way to make an issue of gender?

Originally Posted by Celia Stevens

This was an occasion to create a record and have some fun. BIG DEAL!

Surely the while point of anyone racing at club level is for fun? Why else do it? Incidentally - what's the record for a men only race? Anyone know? Anyone care?

Originally Posted by Celia Stevens

Thank-you Al for at least acknowledging that some of us spanner. Has anyone done a poll of male racers to see how many of them actually spanner? Does anyone care? Alright I know that most do but so do we.

Nobody cares who's doing the spannering (and rightly so).

Originally Posted by Celia Stevens

Also yes Al I used to have a fantastic time racing with the CTCRC and was treated as just another driver.

Good to hear - but that's just how it should be. There's no reason you should be treated any differently.

Originally Posted by Celia Stevens

I can't believe I am writing all this in defence of an harmless activity that most people I know applauded. Shan't say any more. See you all out there sometime.

I just don't understand the need for this event, I guess if it brings more people into the sport then it will have achieved something positive. Still strikes me as odd though. Motorsport should be being promoted across the board to get more people involved full stop irrespective of gender, race, religion, disability etc etc etc.

[GroveDeanAndy]

I think it was a brilliant initiative - and as someone who races against Stacey (who came 2nd in the race) in the Alfa Championship, I know how much she enjoyed the experience of racing other drivers in different cars.

I know the main purpose was to break a record, but the race set-up (handicaps etc) was no different to a mini-birkett. Entertaining for the sparse spectators I assume.

Now, who mentioned getting 28 fat blokes together . . . . .

[midgetman]

The point is Bert, there doesn't need to be a "need". There doesn't need to be a race for old 'uns yet the Victor Meldrew was born. There doesn't need to be a race just for MGs, yet the MGCC thrives. And so on ad nauseum. The 29 drivers in this race felt that they wanted to have fun with a group of like-minded enthusiasts and along the way show that not all racing drivers are male. Does it matter? No. Does it make an interesting story in the wide world where unenlightened attitudes prevail? Yes it does, which makes it all worthwhile.

Jagbabe taught some girl kart racers in a racing school I ran a couple of years back and they were delighted to have a female role model which they didn't know was there. "Ain't no such thing as bad publicity".

[NICK ALLISON]

The clue is in the title British Woman Racing Drivers CLUB- " a group or association of people with common aims or interests"
Brilliant concept - more please.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by midgetman

The point is Bert, there doesn't need to be a "need". There doesn't need to be a race for old 'uns yet the Victor Meldrew was born.

I didn't realise that the Victor Meldrew was just for older drivers - i thought it was just for miserable gits Is it really only for older drivers?

Originally Posted by midgetman

The 29 drivers in this race felt that they wanted to have fun with a group of like-minded enthusiasts

Are male drivers not 'like minded enthusiasts' in this instance?

Originally Posted by midgetman

Does it matter? No. Does it make an interesting story in the wide world where unenlightened attitudes prevail? Yes it does, which makes it all worthwhile.

Does it matter? No - I agree not really, it's just another race on the timetable. Does it make an interesting story in the wide world where unenlightened attitudes prevail? - maybe, but maybe it also looks like it's just re-enforcing those attitudes? There's also an element of "preaching to the converted" about it - if you're just bringing together all the existing female drivers then it's a mildly diverting novelty race but does it promote racing to anyone outside the existing motorsport circles?

Originally Posted by midgetman

Jagbabe taught some girl kart racers in a racing school I ran a couple of years back and they were delighted to have a female role model which they didn't know was there.

Good stuff. Nobody is saying women shouldn't be competing and as you say having role models could help bring more into the sport. It's the most positive about Susie Wolff being at Williams for example.

Originally Posted by midgetman

"Ain't no such thing as bad publicity"

So they say

[bauble]

I come a little late to this thread, and have noted remarks about 'girls and dirty hands', well Sharlie Goddard who raced her Morgan in the event, competes in the Aero Morgan Challenge series, along with four other ladies, against the men and all do so successfully, Sharlie a regular contender for class and overall honours in the Challenge.



Does this answer any questions about women drivers, Bert, et al?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by bauble

Does this answer any questions about women drivers, Bert, et al?

What questions about women drivers? At no point have I said that women can't compete or shouldn't compete In fact that's pretty much the direct opposiite of what I've been saying At the end of the day I don't care who (or what) is driving the cars - if the cars are interesting and the racing good I'm a happy punter.

[Al Weyman]

I guess at least it made sure a woman won! Only joking lol! Btw I think Danica Patrick is gorgeous.

[gt917]

Originally Posted by bauble

I come a little late to this thread, and have noted remarks about 'girls and dirty hands', well Sharlie Goddard who raced her Morgan in the event, competes in the Aero Morgan Challenge series, along with four other ladies, against the men and all do so successfully, Sharlie a regular contender for class and overall honours in the Challenge.



Does this answer any questions about women drivers, Bert, et al?

Might I suggest that if she is a serious "fettler" with the cars, she should remove those three rings from her fingers and thumb when working with machinery.

On an even more serious note though, I am worried about the effect all this is having on the natural evolution of mankind. It does seem a natural thing for the female of the species to race as their generally smaller feet suit tight pedal configurations well, and the usually lighter bodyweight makes for a better power to weight ratio.
I do accept that Sharlie is still wearing a white race suit, so she should match the sink when she cleans her hands and will naturally stand closer to it with the daintier feet, but this is definitely a worrying trend. They,ve had the vote, now they are trying to break away from the kitchen ............all very worrying. Is this what God had planned in the great scheme of things or is Mother nature putting her foot down ?? Oh, and will we have to have special car parking areas in the paddocks and was God showing his displeasure by opening the heavens up for their race.?

Questions. questions, questions !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where will we all be in a thousand years !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though, I think its all brilliant stuff and they bring some glamour and order to racing and they can be seriously quick.

Finally, and lets be honest, a majority of the pits could do with a damn good vacuum !!!!!!!

[bauble]

Forget it, I can't post a picture. I'll try later. Da.....!**

[bauble]

Why not have a race meeting with an all female cast of marshals?

Now that would cause a stir. Would it not?

Er! gt917! Have you never heard the expression, 'Skating on Thin Ice'?

Picture courtesy of Tripos Media(CD)



Some race and marshal.

[gt917]

"Er! gt917! Have you never heard the expression, 'Skating on Thin Ice'?"


Sure have, but all said in the best possible light hearted fashion.

Incidentally, have just noticed that she is wearing a green race suit in the Morgan, so top marks for colour co-ordination.

I also marshal when not racing and am in admiration of the "gals" out on post. Top marks to them all.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I guess at least it made sure a woman won! Only joking lol! Btw I think Danica Patrick is gorgeous.

Yeah but if you read US sport forums they reckon she can't drive a greasy stick up a dog's a..... and is only there for one reason. To make the series marketable.

I have no opinion on this, I'm just reporting what I've read before you all lay in to me!!!!!!!!!!!

[jagbabe]

Hi Guys,

In particular Bert: who really does seem to have missed the point of what we were trying to achieve last weekend. Lets get a few facts right before I start my controlled rant.
The BWRDC never has or will promote female exclusivity, all our members, in all fields of motorsport compete against blokes on a level playing field (except its a race track and very often not level, but you know what I mean), and that is just the way we like it thank you.
But the fact is that less than 5% of competition licence holders are female and that is not a good statistic. Without going into a lengthy sociological diatribe about the many and varied influences on human behaviour (both male and female) within our society suffice it to say that not tinkering about with spanners under oily cars may have some influence on why there are not enough women in our sport but it is equally likely that some of the reasons for this are that we have full time jobs in and out of the home and tend to (without generalising too much) be the home-makers and child rearers. If a lot of chaps got into the kitchen I suspect several partners might swap places under the bonnet (don't hang me I'm being tongue in cheek) but I know plenty of chaps who know as much about spanners as I do e.g. not a lot. But I do have a partner who does so that works for me!
The point is virtually every woman knows that statistically we do not get the same pay for the same job as men (more than 50 years since the Dagenham ladies dispute and the equal pay act). Just because we know though does not change anything without campaigning and raising awareness for a change and that is my point (though its taken me a while to get here).
Last weeks event was about raising awareness for other women that you can be young, old, thin, fat, a mother, grandmother (there were several on track) tinker with cars or not!!!! It matters not. But you can race and compete with blokes and have great fun or be more serious about your racing and / or make a career out of it.
Doing nothing is unlikely to improve numbers of lady racers, doing something might not either (but it shouldn't hurt) so as long as I'm chairman of the club we wont stop trying to do something. Personally I think the sport would be richer, in every way if we can change things. If there was more female interest and more female viewers and supporters then it is likely that different and more varied companies might also be interested and that could attract greater sponsorship opportunities (for everyone) and bring in funds hopefully throughout all levels of our sport.
Nirvana I know but more women could surely not harm.
That's my last word (you may be glad to know). Maybe Bert would like to fork out £25 quid and become a supporter member of the BWRDC, he would get a copy of our e magazine and be able to read in more detail about the exploits of our members and learn more about what we have been trying (and succeeding) in doing for the past 50 odd years.

Happy racing

[bauble]

Applause.

bauble.

[gt917]

Well said Gail ........ now get back in the kitchen !!!!!!!******!!!!!!!

Seriously though chaps, we should all applaud her. Our paths have,nt crossed recently but Gail was always about the paddock and ready to chat when our different race series were on the same programme.
She even turned up at Spa, and I was well impressed.
Great driver and a damn sight tougher and friendlier than lots of us men.

But ...............

there is more chance of being struck twice by lightning on the same day whilst hanging upside down over the River Zambezi, than my wife taking up motor racing. Thank you Dear Lord, for saving mankind that dreadful fate .

When she was approached at the Silverstone Classic to join the BWDRC and handed a booklet, I thought, surely they cannot be serious. No club could sink to those depths to get members

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Yeah but if you read US sport forums they reckon she can't drive a greasy stick up a dog's a..... and is only there for one reason. To make the series marketable.

I have no opinion on this, I'm just reporting what I've read before you all lay in to me!!!!!!!!!!!

Still the best woman racer in NASCAR to date so what does that tell us lol!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by jagbabe

In particular Bert: who really does seem to have missed the point of what we were trying to achieve last weekend.

I assume the point was to promote motorsport to women? The wider 'Go Motorsport' initiative makes more sense to me - promote the sport to as many people as possible.

Originally Posted by jagbabe

The BWRDC never has or will promote female exclusivity, all our members, in all fields of motorsport compete against blokes on a level playing field (except its a race track and very often not level, but you know what I mean), and that is just the way we like it thank you.

Which is exactly as it should be (and I don't think anyone has said it should be otherwise?). You seem to be under the misapprehension that I don't approve of women in motorsport - as I'm sure I've said above (somewhere in the rather extensive thread) I don't care who's out there - good racing is good racing.

Originally Posted by jagbabe

But the fact is that less than 5% of competition licence holders are female and that is not a good statistic.

It'd be interesting to see how that breaks down across the various licences - race, rally, marshal, speed etc. Is there a bigger disparity in any particular area or is it pretty even?

Originally Posted by jagbabe

Last weeks event was about raising awareness for other women that you can be young, old, thin, fat, a mother, grandmother (there were several on track) tinker with cars or not!!!! It matters not.

Was the event promoted outside motorsport circles? Unless the coverage is spread wider (outside motorsport circles) you're preaching to the converted to some extent.

Originally Posted by jagbabe

But you can race and compete with blokes

Well - in most races

Originally Posted by jagbabe

Maybe Bert would like to fork out £25 quid and become a supporter member of the BWRDC, he would get a copy of our e magazine and be able to read in more detail about the exploits of our members and learn more about what we have been trying (and succeeding) in doing for the past 50 odd years.

No ta. I need my pennies for my competition licence / club membership and that's expensive enough (and that's without the MSA introducing any more rules that mean we have to bin perfectly good seats and belts). I did see the item about your Silverstone race in the latest MSA news email though.

Originally Posted by jagbabe

Happy racing

I'll drink to that! (obviously drinking after the racing )

[jagbabe]

Hi Bert,

I think we can declare peace now . We did advertise more widely in the hope it would gain greater interest and in fact the BBC were informed and were considering coming along, though probably just as well they didn't in the end because of the bad weather.
There are a higher proportion of female marshals than competition licence holders (bless em all, male of female), and it is like swimming through treacle trying to gain more interest from women but as we all know there are many women now running race teams (F1 is particularly good considering).
We do hope to be at Autosport again so try and come along to our stand, I think would would be impressed at the number of successful ladies there have been through the years.
We will continue trying to attract more girls into cars and off horses, apart from anything else its far safer....
Now time to do some housework

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Still the best woman racer in NASCAR to date so what does that tell us lol!

That NASCAR is even more chauvinistic than UK racing?

[Al Weyman]

I think the answer is obvious and if your right then F1, BTCC, Sports cars etc must all be chavanistic. In fact maybe this race and all female races are in fact a good thing because its pretty obvious to me that in the upper echelons of our sport especially the longer distance events that the ladies may be physically not as well equipped to endure the stress of competition nor are many men, maybe the only arena they really are e_ual is in drag racing as has been proved. A 15 minute sprint or even a 20 or 40 minute club event is one thing but 1.5 hours or whatever of high stress F1 can only be tackled by a supremely fit athlete and physically strength must play its role.

[bauble]

A final thought (hopefully) from me on the subject of an 'All Woman Race.'

Some feel that it was sexist, but in practical terms what else could the ladies do?

Had they tried to enter 29 girls into, say, the Closed Wheel Race, they would have dominated the entry list and probably denied some 'men' the opportunity to take part, which would probably have led to claims of gender bias.
Had some of their entries been turned down the whole point of the exercise would have been defeated, and as the point of the race was to set a record!!!

By running a race all of their own they were able to achieve the record without discommoding anyone else, and they were able to run a handicap system that suited their needs.

Never has there been any suggestion that the contestants were shy of pitting their skills against the men in any category they compete in.

Well done ladies, why not try and extend the record next year?

[John Turner]

It's just something different. Why do we have to question it? We are always trying to bring new initiatives to motor racing to create extra/different interest. One off races are just that; so this was an all Ladies race. That's great isn't it and it had a purpose of breaking records too. Great job, Gail. Results here:-


http://results.mstworld.com/Results/...213&series=lad

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by John Turner

It's just something different. Why do we have to question it? We are always trying to bring new initiatives to motor racing to create extra/different interest. One off races are just that; so this was an all Ladies race. That's great isn't it and it had a purpose of breaking records too. Great job, Gail. Results here:-


http://results.mstworld.com/Results/...213&series=lad

Thanks for that link John-great detail! Fiona James clearly the quickest lady in the wet