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Old 18 Dec 2010, 09:59 (Ref:2805902)   #1
Henrik Pedersen
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Henrik Pedersen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
BMW 1800 TiSa replica project.

Has anybody got some connections to an enginebuilder for a FIA engine for this car ?
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Old 18 Dec 2010, 10:48 (Ref:2805909)   #2
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Has anybody got some connections to an enginebuilder for a FIA engine for this car ?
See your pms.
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Old 18 Dec 2010, 13:13 (Ref:2805982)   #3
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Henrik Pedersen View Post
Has anybody got some connections to an enginebuilder for a FIA engine for this car ?

Just finished one!
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Old 18 Dec 2010, 14:57 (Ref:2806007)   #4
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Pretty Vacant should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Try Laranca Engineering, they run a team of them, one of which is driven hard by Jackie Oliver.
The team owner Richard Shaw is a well known specialist in this type.
Tel number is 01564 702651
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Old 18 Dec 2010, 17:00 (Ref:2806041)   #5
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lagedor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
BMW TISA

The TISA was not homolagated in 65...
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Old 18 Dec 2010, 17:40 (Ref:2806058)   #6
Henrik Pedersen
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Henrik Pedersen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No, but 1800 Ti is.
When does the TiSa come into effect.
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Old 19 Dec 2010, 08:04 (Ref:2806214)   #7
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I think 1966, so no 5 speed gearbox.
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Old 19 Dec 2010, 09:36 (Ref:2806239)   #8
Henrik Pedersen
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Henrik Pedersen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I wasn´t quite sure.
I can see on some website, that the TiSa is refered to as a 1965 car.
How does the confussion emerge ? Someone must know the right date, or ???

ps: I have send you a PM
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Old 19 Dec 2010, 16:49 (Ref:2806331)   #9
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rogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Even if a car was available from the manufacturer in say 1965 it doesn't mean it was homologated in 1965. You need to check the homologation date.

In addition to Laranca, the other specialist I know on BMW engines is Lester Owen.
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Old 20 Dec 2010, 00:42 (Ref:2806379)   #10
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Originally Posted by lagedor View Post
I think 1966, so no 5 speed gearbox.
The BMW 1800 Ti was homologated in 1964 with a 5 speed box.
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Old 20 Dec 2010, 10:57 (Ref:2806481)   #11
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From the FIA form I have, the word (German) is refused !
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Old 20 Dec 2010, 11:01 (Ref:2806484)   #12
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lagedor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I remember well the Scuderia del Portello protest against 5 speed gear box, Dieter Quester,
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Old 20 Dec 2010, 11:02 (Ref:2806486)   #13
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lagedor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Jeremy Hall can confirm
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Old 20 Dec 2010, 12:34 (Ref:2806506)   #14
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morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The FIA papers I have (FIA No. 1286 dated 25.03.64) have a sheet attached which refer to FIA Bulletin No. 250. This states:

'BMW 1800TiHomologations-Nr. 1286 von 1964). Es wird bestaatigt, daB*ias Modell "TiSA" nicht homologiert wurde.'

At the bottom of the sheet, which is not a good copy (hence the missing letter in the above quotation), is the caption 'ONS-Vitteilungen 11-12/90'

I don't speak German so make of that what you will.

On the Motorbase website there is little reference to the BMW 1800 TiSA but there was a note thatone was sold by Coys in August 2009 described as one of the original 200 built by the factory and this particular one was built in 1965.
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Old 21 Dec 2010, 13:28 (Ref:2806943)   #15
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Hello,

maybe I can help a little bit for clarification of the discussion topics.

The BMW 1800 TISA (SA = Sonderausfuehrung = Special edition) was a limited run of 200 cars build in 1965 by the factory as homologation special, that incorporated already all the homologated racing parts as stated in the 1964 BMW 1800 TI homologation form #1286. Therefore it did not needed a separate homologation form.

The TISA was sold to racing drivers as basis for competition. At the time, when you wanted to go racing in a BMW 1800 TI, you either were one of the lucky few to get hold of a factory TISA ready for racing. Otherwise you needed to buy a 1800 TI and then go shopping for all the racing bits.

The major mechanical changes in comparison to a standard 1800 TI were special high-compression engine with special ported cylinder head, hot camshaft, fully counterweight crankshaft, fuel supply through 45 Weber carburettors, 5-speed gearbox, bigger brakes, stronger wheel bearings, quick rack steering, up rated suspension with ARBs front and rear. In addition, the drivers compartment was fitted with special bucked seats, a prominent rev-counter and a special wood-rim steering wheel.

In regard to the homologation situation, you can somehow compare the TISA with a Ferrari GTO or Lightweight E-Type, that have no separate homologation form either, but are derivates from the respective production models with all the racing upgrades already in place.

In regard to the 5 speed box. The BMW 1800 TI is definitely homologated with a 5 speed box! This is stated in the homologation form #1286. Just look at the chart with the gearbox ratios.

I hope this information is of some help. I have just completed the restoration of one of the original factory TISAs. Please see some pictures, albeit the car is not to todays Appendix K.

Regards,
Stephan
Munich, Germany








Last edited by 1800TISA; 21 Dec 2010 at 13:50.
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Old 21 Dec 2010, 14:40 (Ref:2806978)   #16
Henrik Pedersen
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Henrik Pedersen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I can see you have Weber carburators on your.
Are they better tan the Solex ??
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Old 21 Dec 2010, 15:40 (Ref:2807007)   #17
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I can see you have Weber carburators on your.
Are they better tan the Solex ??
Hello Henrik, yes you are right. The 1800 TISA was fitted with 45 Weber already by the factory, as it was common practice by tuning firms for race engines. Brainchild for fitting Weber carburettors to the BMW M10 engines was actually ALPINA founder Burkard Bovensiepen who in 1961 invented a Weber carburettor kit for the then new BMW 1500.

The 1800 TI as well as the 2002 TI in later days still had 40PHH Solex. I assume this was mainly because the Solex was less expensive as a sourced part for a series production car than the Weber.

Regards, Stephan
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Old 21 Dec 2010, 16:35 (Ref:2807034)   #18
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Stephan, a couple of really excellent informative posts, there, thank you!
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Old 21 Dec 2010, 17:34 (Ref:2807061)   #19
Jeremy Hall
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Jeremy Hall should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
FWIW I agree with Stefan that all the items he mentions do not need homologation in 1965 Appendix J.The only thing about the silver BMW is holes in the bonnet which are categorically not permitted-unless the factory homologated the bonnet like this.
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Old 21 Dec 2010, 18:28 (Ref:2807071)   #20
Henrik Pedersen
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Henrik Pedersen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I have got some very good, quality in-put.
Thank you Terry, Peter and Stefan

Merry X-mas and a happy New Year to you all, from Denmark
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Old 21 Dec 2010, 19:28 (Ref:2807096)   #21
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in line with another thread, I think its called 'clubbing' together
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Old 21 Dec 2010, 19:57 (Ref:2807107)   #22
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Hi Stephan, the car looks fantastic! I won't ask the value!
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Old 22 Dec 2010, 07:20 (Ref:2807236)   #23
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Henrik Pedersen View Post
I have got some very good, quality in-put.
Thank you Terry, Peter and Stefan

Merry X-mas and a happy New Year to you all, from Denmark
You are more than welcome Henrik and likewise to you.
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Old 22 Dec 2010, 07:26 (Ref:2807237)   #24
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Stephan,good to see you have finished you're 1800 now,it look's fabulous-great effort,but then again,I didn't expect anything less from you!
Seasonal greetings to you and of course, the family.
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Old 22 Dec 2010, 13:04 (Ref:2807338)   #25
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1800TISA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hello everybody, I am glad that the information was of some help and you like the car.

@Mike and Terry. I am looking forward meeting you next year. Nurburgring, Spa or Silverstone...?! Mike I still need to see your Escort racer live somewhere to bring me up to speed with my Twin Cam project!

@Henrik, good luck with your TISA project. Do not hesitate to contact me for any questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Hall View Post
FWIW I agree with Stefan that all the items he mentions do not need homologation in 1965 Appendix J.The only thing about the silver BMW is holes in the bonnet which are categorically not permitted-unless the factory homologated the bonnet like this.
Jeremy, thanks for your comment. You are right, the drilled bonnet was no standard part on the 200 factory TISA and it was not explicitly homologated. But the works had them on some of their race cars. I think it should be possible to prove that those works cars were entered in international events. But I don't know about todays FIA approval issues therefore leave this discussion open for the guys still racing these cars today.

Merry Christmas,
Stephan

GP for Touring Cars, Nurburgring 1965:


ETCC Snetterton 1965, Hubert Hahne and Alex von Falkenhausen:



Unknown, but obviously "happy" privateer (or maybe just his wife/mom/mother in law? )
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