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Old 5 Oct 2012, 19:03 (Ref:3146744)   #1051
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How come they'll have to standardize everything, including the freaking engine!?

It's not like Nissan or Toyota can make a 4-cylinder engine that can take on BMW or Mercedes.
Um, do you remember the Inline-4 turbo Toyota used in the Gurney GTP cars? Toyota can build a decent turbo, if they want.

I also can't understand the anger towards the ITR. SuperGT could have just said no to them. Or maybe GT500 is too expensive after all for the manufacturers, and they saw the DTM regs as a convenient way to reduce costs. I, for one, welcome any efforts towards common international regulations.
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Old 5 Oct 2012, 19:44 (Ref:3146756)   #1052
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Um, do you remember the Inline-4 turbo Toyota used in the Gurney GTP cars? Toyota can build a decent turbo, if they want.

I also can't understand the anger towards the ITR. SuperGT could have just said no to them. Or maybe GT500 is too expensive after all for the manufacturers, and they saw the DTM regs as a convenient way to reduce costs. I, for one, welcome any efforts towards common international regulations.
That's because you think the DTM is great, when in reality it is a suck-fest.

I have no issue with the turbo-4, Toyota used them in the Super GT Supra's for a while.
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Old 5 Oct 2012, 20:28 (Ref:3146776)   #1053
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At least the Japanese racing will still be better because they're not afraid of a little contact.
Yeah seriously, have you seen any of the super slomo shots of DTM cars? Their bodywork is so flimsy it might as well be made of tissue paper.

You'd think a spec series would produce close racing but DTM has never failed to put me to sleep! It will be so sad to see the wildest sportscars on the planet go :[
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Old 5 Oct 2012, 22:35 (Ref:3146844)   #1054
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They may be still Super GT's at heart and in shape, but the common parts and lack of development will be sad. If anything they should just see how it goes for a year, then open it up in 2015? I hold out hope that's the case. But low downforce Fuji-spec aero is probably still faster than current DTM. Maybe they'll let them go down to 1000kg like DTM as well, that'll at least keep the speeds close to what they are now.
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Old 5 Oct 2012, 22:49 (Ref:3146851)   #1055
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What's the current weight, 1100?
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Old 5 Oct 2012, 23:19 (Ref:3146860)   #1056
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gustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
What top speed reaches the GT 500 car´s?

The 1,5 km straight at Fuji is good to see their top speed, did anyone know what top speed they do last year?
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Old 5 Oct 2012, 23:28 (Ref:3146867)   #1057
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What top speed reaches the GT 500 car´s?

The 1,5 km straight at Fuji is good to see their top speed, did anyone know what top speed they do last year?
From what I remember in Forza 4(not the greatest measure, I know), the GT500 cars did about 300km/h.
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Old 5 Oct 2012, 23:41 (Ref:3146871)   #1058
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I, for one, welcome any efforts towards common international regulations.
So do I. In a perfect world, we'd have DTM, SGT, V8 Supercars and an American series run to the same regulations. That said, I don't think the regulations as they have been proposed now are going to make for an interesting series.
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 00:08 (Ref:3146881)   #1059
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So do I. In a perfect world, we'd have DTM, SGT, V8 Supercars and an American series run to the same regulations. That said, I don't think the regulations as they have been proposed now are going to make for an interesting series.
V8SC aren't GT cars though.

They may not be "Touring cars" in the whole sense of the word, but they lack the grip and downforce to be considered GT cars, imo.

Now, DTM, SGT, and AGT run under current SGT rules would be incredible.
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 06:52 (Ref:3146931)   #1060
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I think they're around 290kmh. And yes, they weigh 1100kg, with ballast (plus success ballast which slows them down).
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 10:41 (Ref:3147019)   #1061
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V8SC aren't GT cars though.

They may not be "Touring cars" in the whole sense of the word, but they lack the grip and downforce to be considered GT cars, imo.

Now, DTM, SGT, and AGT run under current SGT rules would be incredible.
Yeah, and include either Trans-Am and its inspired siblings too like the World Challenge and Continental Challenge.

And as for V8 Supercars, they should unify its rules to NASCAR...

On the other hand, will the press con indicates a combined race between DTM and Super GT?
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 11:27 (Ref:3147041)   #1062
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Super GT as we know it is ending Sad to see them standardize the cars and allow no upgrades during the season. Hopefully 2013 is a great year.
Now I know how the ALMS people felt. This is awful, and seems to be done for no purpose at all.
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 11:43 (Ref:3147045)   #1063
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That's because you think the DTM is great, when in reality it is a suck-fest.

I have no issue with the turbo-4, Toyota used them in the Super GT Supra's for a while.
DTM sucks, they should have gone the V8 Supercars route.
But you can't blame DTM for SuperGT using the DTM rules. Like DS said they could have said no. Apparently the Japanese manufacturers no longer want to invest millions in their national series.
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 12:23 (Ref:3147054)   #1064
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DTM sucks, they should have gone the V8 Supercars route.
But you can't blame DTM for SuperGT using the DTM rules. Like DS said they could have said no. Apparently the Japanese manufacturers no longer want to invest millions in their national series.
And DTM actually has gotten quite a bit better with the new rules. Not where I'd like them to be, but it's not terrible anymore most of the time. If they had a secondary class like GT300 to create overtaking opportunities it would be quite spectacular.
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 13:31 (Ref:3147083)   #1065
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helgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Hm, I've been talking about an end of GT500 for a year now. I don't know what were you hoping for when they said that rules would be common. But a real shock for me that they are going to do a kind of one-make class out of GT300. Common chassis, common engine. It seems that manufacturers don't just want to spend money. They just can not find any money.
As for me, I really was happy when the first news about DTM+Super GT broke. But there's no chance for Group 5 revival. So I really can't see any sense in watching Super GT more. I'm not interested in watching just Japanese drivers battling in a one-make series. To say the truth I'm not enjoying even DTM now, as cars are standard. That standardizing really kills any interest in watching racing. It leaves me only with LMP/GTE racing to watch. At least, I get more free time. Thanks a lot.
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 14:04 (Ref:3147095)   #1066
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It seems that manufacturers don't just want to spend money. They just can not find any money.
The Japanese manufacturers are having a hard time lately. China is one of the largest markets for cars and with the recent conflicts, sales for Japanese manufacturers has plummeted. Also, take into consideration that the NA market is even more competitive now with the huge success of Kia/Hyundai.

Spending millions on a national racing series isn't their top priority at the moment.
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 14:11 (Ref:3147098)   #1067
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But a real shock for me that they are going to do a kind of one-make class out of GT300. Common chassis, common engine. It seems that manufacturers don't just want to spend money. They just can not find any money
As I understand it, GT300 will have a spec option rather than being a spec class. So teams that feel like they can't afford their own development programs can opt to use the mother chassis and the spec engine, but they won't have to.

Quite like the TOCA-engine in BTCC, really.

And proper GT300 was dying anyway with the huge success of the GT3-type cars in the class, so the spec option might help bring more Japanese build cars on track again.
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 21:10 (Ref:3147224)   #1068
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GT300 looks to be the real SuperGT of the future. Hybrid cars, Toyota making a GT86. The Subaru BRZ is there. The Prius is there, the CR-Z is there. While GT500 moves to combine with DTM, GT300 expands to Asian LeMans Series.
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 23:03 (Ref:3147274)   #1069
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The biggest issue here is making GT500 cars go down the route of their DTM counterparts, spec item this, spec item that. And the end of it all, what you essentially have is a spec series with some slightly bespoke aero. It killed DTM and now it's going to kill GT500. Why? As before mention, I guess the manufacturers have recognized how unsustainable it is to keep up their GT500 efforts. A sad day for top flight GT's
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Old 6 Oct 2012, 23:31 (Ref:3147282)   #1070
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Much as I like GT500 it is a shame those cars race so far away and are rarely seen. I'd like to see the engineering talent used on projects with international potential like LMP1, LMP2 and GTE, Japan needs more representation there.

Super GT has plateaued and thats one of the reasons they are attempting to expand into Asia with the series and their cars. It's sensible for GT500 to use DTM regulations and GT300 to have a budget option, but as I say I'd like to see the resources once ploughed into GT500 to be let loose on international projects. Projects that will see the light of day locally now the WEC and ASLMS will race in the region.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 00:02 (Ref:3147293)   #1071
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I think SGT/GT500 wants that international appeal, so joining with DTM may give them that. I'm holding out hope that the first year will just be a beginning and have the 'spec' part as just a placeholder on regulations until they can come to an agreement, maybe it'll depend on their success?
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 11:10 (Ref:3147534)   #1072
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Come to think of it, I wonder if Super GT would be just another Formula One feeder series (just like DTM, for most of the people) when 2014 hits?
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Old 13 Oct 2012, 09:06 (Ref:3150782)   #1073
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GT500 vs LMP2

Funny to see that GT500 are as fast as LMP2 in Fuji. 2011 track record of MOLA was 1:32 so pretty much the fastest times of LMP2 in Fuji so far. GTE Pro/Am are running in GT300 times (a bit faster it seems).

Looking forward to Motegi Rd8 to compare with MotoGP...
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Old 14 Oct 2012, 07:26 (Ref:3151354)   #1074
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And they weigh 200kg+ more (with success ballast). The Super GT's do have softer tires though, but you can see they make some real good downforce.
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Old 14 Oct 2012, 08:05 (Ref:3151372)   #1075
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Considering that a lot of the drivers in the LMP1 podium trace their racing careers to Japan, its a proud time for Japanese motorsport.
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