How to get Homologation papers for Berkeley B95?

[John Bergqvist]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Well done Allan,thats all that would be required.

That sounds great but the model used was the one with the 328cc engine, rather than the 492 (which is what we have). Would it still be close enough?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by John Bergqvist

That sounds great but the model used was the one with the 328cc engine, rather than the 492 (which is what we have). Would it still be close enough?

John, I think at this point you need to be talking to a representative of the MSA. No offence to any that have posted on here but none of us are HTP inspectors!

[John Bergqvist]

Cheers. I emailed them yesterday but haven't had a reply yet.

[midgetman]

I think my late father used to race one in the mid to late 50s, only club level stuff.

If you knew him in his later years, you'd never believe that 328cc was enough to drag him along let alone *race*

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by John Bergqvist

Cheers. I emailed them yesterday but haven't had a reply yet.

Like a lot of businesses, they usually respond quicker to phone calls- emails aren't so immediate!

[Al Weyman]

The amount of spam I get in my little business even with mail washers etc. is unbelievable and so easy to throw out the baby with the bath water, I can only imagine how much they must get!

[DaveGT6]

Of no real help regarding obtaining papers but seeing this thread - I live about 500m from the site of the Berkley factory in Biggleswade. The Biggleswade Historic Society published some pictures of Berkleys and Lawrie Bond in a local free mag recently so they must have some info available although I doubt they have anything racing releated.

There are also so bits on Biggles FM web. You could always try contacting them to see if they can get any info - I'm sure they'd love the story angle

http://www.bigglesfm.com/berkeley.htm

[injected]

I've got a B95 (my third Berkeley) and i wrote most of the Wikipedia article on them.

Your dad's is one of the very last 492's (they only made 666 of them). The 492 was the most successful racing car in the Berkeley range, so you won't have a problem entering it in any historic series.

I think your problem will be satisfying yourself that it can be made safe in the modern sense, as there is precious little structure in the standard car to which to attach roll cage, seat, belts etc to. Do call me if you'd like any help or to be put in touch with other Berkeley racers around the world.

Good luck!

Guy Lachlan
Classic Oils
01296-488927

[John Bergqvist]

Originally Posted by injected

I've got a B95 (my third Berkeley) and i wrote most of the Wikipedia article on them.

Your dad's is one of the very last 492's (they only made 666 of them). The 492 was the most successful racing car in the Berkeley range, so you won't have a problem entering it in any historic series.

I think your problem will be satisfying yourself that it can be made safe in the modern sense, as there is precious little structure in the standard car to which to attach roll cage, seat, belts etc to. Do call me if you'd like any help or to be put in touch with other Berkeley racers around the world.

Good luck!

Guy Lachlan
Classic Oils
01296-488927

is there a standard FIA document somewhere showing what modern safety additions need to be made to historic cars, but so that they are still compliant with the HTP?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by John Bergqvist

is there a standard FIA document somewhere showing what modern safety additions need to be made to historic cars, but so that they are still compliant with the HTP?

Everything is covered by FIA Appendix K document which runs to 97 pages from memory due to covering everything including kitchen sink and being in two languages on each page!

It can be viewed here but your MSA contact may be able to guide you through it easier.....

The 1959 Berkeley in question will fall into period E, and the safety equipment required for that is less stringent than anything newer. Whether the owner wants to race with lesser safety measures is obviously down to personal choice.

[FastDB2s]

A mate of mine used to own the Monza Berkeley, he never finished it & it was sold on.

[socram]

Taken at Donington but not sure of the date - if anyone can help I'd be grateful as I have several other pics from the same meeting!

As regards Appendix K, I opted out of it with my Marcos, because although the 1800 Volvo engine ran in period and has a great history, the Volvo 3 litre wasn't homologated. Just not worth the bother.

Fortunately, here in NZ, we don't need expensive paperwork to race in most classic events and about three-quarters of the cars don't even bother with the local equivalent, a CoD (Certificate of Description).

Ironically, we have very well supported events with up to 150 or so at a one day meeting and 250 for a two day. Extras such as the forthcoming higher profile event, ostensibly for fairly pure cars, the Denny Hulme meet, could well have over 300.

[Alex E]

A friend of mine had one of these in the `70`s. Is it right that they had no reverse gear. You had to stop the engine & do something (maybe reverse the polarity...he did demonstrate this to me...?) & start the engine but it then ran in the opposite direction ? So it had 3 forward & 3 reverse gears ??

Or was it something else ?? Maybe not a Berkeley ? Seem to remember it had 3 wheels, 2 front one rear?
Alex

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Alex E

A friend of mine had one of these in the `70`s. Is it right that they had no reverse gear. You had to stop the engine & do something (maybe reverse the polarity...he did demonstrate this to me...?) & start the engine but it then ran in the opposite direction ? So it had 3 forward & 3 reverse gears ??

Or was it something else ?? Maybe not a Berkeley ? Seem to remember it had 3 wheels, 2 front one rear?
Alex

That may have been one of the smaller-engined Berkeleys - in common with many other economy cars of the period they had two-stroke engines originally intended for motorcycles. As bikes don't need reverse gears, (well, not if you discount such monsters as Honda Goldwings!) in car applications reversing was accomplished by starting the engine in the "wrong" direction. The B95 & B105 used four-stroke engines, so they couldn't do that - they used a four speed & reverse gearbox.

[GORDON STREETER]

The thing about reverse and three wheelers was that you could drive a 3 wheeled vehicle on a provisional motor cycle licence with L plates and no licenced driver sitting beside you as long as it didn't have a reverse gear, if you had a reliant "trotter mobile" you where supposed to have reverse blanked off.
All of the 2 strokes were easily reversed by simply advancing the ignition timing as they will run in either direction, as found out by some of the "home tuners" back in the old days

[racerkeke]

My parents ran a four-wheeled Berkeley in vintage events in Canada in the '80s and '90s. I believe it was also a '59 but I don't know the model. It was indeed a very lightweight car, so my mom generally drove it.

Delta knows my brother Doug (with the Dreossi) so could find out more info from him on how VARAC classified the car.
keke

[delcomb]

Originally Posted by racerkeke

My parents ran a four-wheeled Berkeley in vintage events in Canada in the '80s and '90s. I believe it was also a '59 but I don't know the model. It was indeed a very lightweight car, so my mom generally drove it.
keke

It was a 1957 B60 (328 Excelsior 2 cyl). This was at Waterford Hills in Michigan in 1982. Scooter (mom) in the Berkeley, Dave (dad) in the '32 Morgan trike, me supporting the roll bar. Originally 3 speed, converted to 4 speed. It was just classified as Vintage Production here in Canada. It certainly taught me how to use mirrors.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by delcomb

It was a 1957 B60 (328 Excelsior 2 cyl). This was at Waterford Hills in Michigan in 1982. Scooter (mom) in the Berkeley, Dave (dad) in the '32 Morgan trike, me supporting the roll bar. Originally 3 speed, converted to 4 speed. It was just classified as Vintage Production here in Canada. It certainly taught me how to use mirrors.

That is a wonderful picture. Thanks for posting it!

[Rudernst]

A word of caution

this sounds like the classic beginners approach of first having a car and then looking into where this could be raced.

Problem with that is that You might find Yourself at the very back of the grid with much more suitable machinery in front, getting lapped 2or 3 times.

I know how this feels because this is how I started.
I bought a 1925 racing Aston Martin 16 valver because I fell in love with it.
Only to find out that EVERYBODY ELSE had either 2 or 3 times the power of my car.
You soon tire of that.

I dont know how quick a Berkely like that is and how much the low weight makes up for the power difference.
I have a gut feeling that there is a reason why You dont see them racing out there.

Rudolf

[socram]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

Problem with that is that You might find Yourself at the very back of the grid with much more suitable machinery in front, getting lapped 2or 3 times.Rudolf

Which is why the series I run in NZ runs one scratch race (no series points) then two handicap races, for series points. Handicaps are assessed only on proven track performance not some convoluted formula that never works fairly anyway.

The format works so well that we ended up with enough for two grids, so they are now separated by speed, meaning that no car gets lapped in a handicap race and all drivers get the 8 laps they have paid for. It also means that we have a huge variety of cars, which is one of the main objectives.

I am now in my 17th year of running it this way and it means that you can run a highly developed V8 or a modest 4 cylinder, though we do demand that even the slowest cars can meet a specific target time. Slower than that and they take part in what we term a Classic Reliability Trial where the driver merely has to circulate as close to his/her nominated lap time as possible.

[John Bergqvist]

We're not really *that* interested in winning to be honest.