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Old 4 Feb 2012, 15:50 (Ref:3021515)   #376
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Originally Posted by JHamilton View Post
I kind of like it... The giant intake reminds me of 70's sports racers and the huge splitter is like cars of ten years ago.
that was my first thought as well- it's the return of the 1970's F1 airbox....

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...5_1946237i.jpg
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 15:52 (Ref:3021516)   #377
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Originally Posted by FĂ©lix View Post
I too am looking forward to seeing what it can do on track. And I'd like to point out that it's much better looking than the yet-to-be-built electric Courage or the ginourmous Green GT... even though it looks like a kcid.

Here's a pic of the Green GT. Its dimensions are 1.2 meter high and over 5 meters long!!
http://images.caradisiac.com/images/...nce-252683.jpg

That is seriously unattractive........


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Originally Posted by KA View Post
that was my first thought as well- it's the return of the 1970's F1 airbox....



http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...5_1946237i.jpg

An airbox? Damn! All those years I thought they were just big handles for loading the things on the trucks.......
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 15:55 (Ref:3021518)   #378
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Originally Posted by Victor_RO View Post
Just had a bit of a brainwave, for people who complain about the looks of the Deltawing: yes, I'm about to commit an act of heresy by bringing F1 into the mix, but just look at the 1983 Brabham BT52. Look strictly at the body shape, compare the two and tell me there is no similarity.
Hmm, I see what you're getting at....

http://i1.8000vueltas.com/2008/09/brabham-bt52.jpg

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.co...Delta-Wing.gif
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 16:03 (Ref:3021526)   #379
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That is seriously unattractive........

An airbox? Damn! All those years I thought they were just big handles for loading the things on the trucks.......
I'm guessing Green GT must need an intake that size for reasons to do with the power unit- you certainly wouldn't do it for aero or styling reasons, would you...?
It's certainly changed a bit from the concept they originally showed...
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/06/16...-le-mans-2012/

I think I've just realised where the idea for the BHF came from- someone's been looking at too many old 70's F1 pics...
http://grandprixinsider.files.wordpr...y-hill-gh1.jpg
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 16:07 (Ref:3021528)   #380
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I'm guessing Green GT must need an intake that size for reasons to do with the power unit- you certainly wouldn't do it for aero or styling reasons, would you...?
It's certainly changed a bit from the concept they originally showed...
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/06/16...-le-mans-2012/
Sure is - from rather attractive to butt-ugly in record time!
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 16:56 (Ref:3021547)   #381
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That is seriously unattractive........





An airbox? Damn! All those years I thought they were just big handles for loading the things on the trucks.......
Bah, that's cool and different in a good way. I wouldn't want a grid of them but that car I could accept lining up for Garage 56!
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 17:20 (Ref:3021557)   #382
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Originally Posted by FĂ©lix View Post
I too am looking forward to seeing what it can do on track. And I'd like to point out that it's much better looking than the yet-to-be-built electric Courage or the ginourmous Green GT... even though it looks like a kcid.

Here's a pic of the Green GT. Its dimensions are 1.2 meter high and over 5 meters long!!
http://images.caradisiac.com/images/...nce-252683.jpg
That really is an ugly car. What with F1 and those ugly stepped noses and the ugly Dallara IndyCar, 2012 is turning out to be the year of unesthetic race cars.
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 18:38 (Ref:3021582)   #383
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That really is an ugly car. What with F1 and those ugly stepped noses and the ugly Dallara IndyCar, 2012 is turning out to be the year of unesthetic race cars.
absolutely. also weird add-ons on lmps. at least the production based cars will always look good. There is no way to mess them up, unless your road car is a panoz abruzzi. Interesting that most of these horrible features in f1 and lmp are there for increased safety.
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 22:01 (Ref:3021644)   #384
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Originally Posted by Victor_RO View Post
Just had a bit of a brainwave, for people who complain about the looks of the Deltawing: yes, I'm about to commit an act of heresy by bringing F1 into the mix, but just look at the 1983 Brabham BT52. Look strictly at the body shape, compare the two and tell me there is no similarity.
So does Dan's AAR Eagle Indycar from the early 1980s that won a CART race at Milwaukee, but those were ugly then and the Wang is ugly now too. At least the Eagle and Brabham have front wings so that they don't look like, well, a dildo if nothing else.

EDIT: It seems that the "green" racing agenda is to make cars as ugly as possible so people stop having interest in them!
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Old 4 Feb 2012, 22:21 (Ref:3021649)   #385
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Personally think the delta wing looks great. It's so refreshing to see somebody thinking outside of the box rather than copying the standard designs. Can't wait to see the lap times
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Old 5 Feb 2012, 00:23 (Ref:3021682)   #386
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I't's that ugly because the tanks are in the sides. No space for the radiators so they're fitted over the engine. Great for the COG I'm sure. And a weight of 1240kg. Definetly better than the lightweight DeltaWing.
http://www.technologicvehicles.com/e...ar-green-gt-ge
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Old 5 Feb 2012, 02:48 (Ref:3021690)   #387
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Personally think the delta wing looks great. It's so refreshing to see somebody thinking outside of the box rather than copying the standard designs. Can't wait to see the lap times
It's really easy to think out side the box when you get your own rulebook. In terms of innovation, this is no Q9 "Sparky" or P1 hybrid even.
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Old 5 Feb 2012, 05:21 (Ref:3021705)   #388
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It's certainly changed a bit from the concept they originally showed...
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/06/16...-le-mans-2012/
The original mockup looked like a WR with some extra intakes
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Old 5 Feb 2012, 07:29 (Ref:3021710)   #389
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It's really easy to think out side the box when you get your own rulebook. In terms of innovation, this is no Q9 "Sparky" or P1 hybrid even.
So something new has to necessarily conform to the existing rulebook? What makes it new then?
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Old 5 Feb 2012, 08:49 (Ref:3021724)   #390
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So something new has to necessarily conform to the existing rulebook? What makes it new then?
There's new things going on within the rulebook. That's what generates legitimate interest. If the ACO should bring back LMP675 or something like that if the ACO wants to see new things going on with lighter cars. Instead, we see a wasted grid spot just for spec car salesmen to show that their wheeled vibrator can turn.
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Old 5 Feb 2012, 12:15 (Ref:3021781)   #391
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So something new has to necessarily conform to the existing rulebook?
no, but at least they should try to put their tech into a customer chassis, so it will comply to the regs somewhat (loads of option available). what if someone would decide to run hybrid tech in an f1 car at el mans. DW (chassis) is a piece of **** indycar concept, a failure. It doesnt belong here. Simple as that. If they have a few real innovative ideas (not necessarily a new engine) they could put those into a variety of customer chassis (like hope racing is doing with hybrid engine)

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Old 5 Feb 2012, 12:31 (Ref:3021789)   #392
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The original mockup looked like a WR with some extra intakes
That's no surprise with Gerard Welter involved...
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Old 5 Feb 2012, 12:35 (Ref:3021791)   #393
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what if someone would decide to run hybrid tech in an f1 car at el mans. DW (chassis) is a piece of **** indycar concept, a failure. It doesnt belong here. Simple as that.
Right. Le Mans is a sports car race. The cars should reflect that in some way. There is no reason why the Wang should be dicking around Le Mans. Let Panoz and company buy an infomercial on Spice with their own money if they want to publicly prove that their latest erection can take a turn.

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Old 6 Feb 2012, 18:38 (Ref:3022280)   #394
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Right. Le Mans is a sports car race. The cars should reflect that in some way. There is no reason why the Wang should be dicking around Le Mans. Let Panoz and company buy an infomercial on Spice with their own money if they want to publicly prove that their latest erection can take a turn.
I tend to agree with you but now the decision has been made to let the D-Wing race at Le Mans, let's see what happens; I'm quite intrigued.
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Old 6 Feb 2012, 23:00 (Ref:3022417)   #395
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Been following this thread for a while, as it seems to be one of the best sources of information about this project, which I've been following since I first heard about it in it's original single-seater form, but I had stop lurking for a moment and post.

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DW (chassis) is a piece of **** indycar concept, a failure. It doesnt belong here. Simple as that. If they have a few real innovative ideas (not necessarily a new engine) they could put those into a variety of customer chassis (like hope racing is doing with hybrid engine)
Ignoring the obvious hatred for the DW, they couldn't take any of their ideas by themselves and put them into a conventional car. The whole point of the DW is half the weight, half the drag, half the power, and half the tire wear/fuel consumption, but just as quick if not quicker.

A half-weight car isn't exactly unconventional by itself, though it would probably require lots of exotic materials in a conventional layout, and thus would be very expensive. Reducing drag by that level pretty much requires a fighter jet-like design like the DW anyway. And you can't drop the power/tire wear/fuel consumption that much without doing both half-weight and half-drag.

All of that put together is the DW's innovative idea, not any one piece of it.

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Right. Le Mans is a sports car race. The cars should reflect that in some way. There is no reason why the Wang should be dicking around Le Mans. Let Panoz and company buy an infomercial on Spice with their own money if they want to publicly prove that their latest erection can take a turn.
It's thinking like that that leaves us with nothing but spec-car racing, is that really what you want?

The DW is designed to go fast, and has 4 wheels 2 seats and an engine, that sure sounds like a sports car to me.
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Old 7 Feb 2012, 09:51 (Ref:3022550)   #396
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Old 7 Feb 2012, 10:20 (Ref:3022563)   #397
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Le Mans has traditionally been THE PLACE for innovation in automotive racing. Disc brakes, turbine engines, air brakes, rotary engines, hybrid configurations (1998 test!), diesel engines... So, whatever it is, welcome DeltaWing, and congratulations for trying something different.
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Old 7 Feb 2012, 10:23 (Ref:3022567)   #398
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It's thinking like that that leaves us with nothing but spec-car racing, is that really what you want?
So allowing a spec car to "race" in the hopes that it will sell more spec cars down the road for Panoz and company is going to counter spec car racing? Ummm, ok. That's an Athertonism if I've ever seen one.

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The DW is designed to go fast, and has 4 wheels 2 seats and an engine, that sure sounds like a sports car to me.
By that definition, almost anything can be a sports car. Why not let 2 seater F1 cars or Indycars race at Le Mans then? Well, hell, I guess they are.

If the ACO wants to see lighter cars mixing it up with heavier cars, bring back LMP675/LMP900. That way differing technologies and philosophies can compete without writing a rulebook just for one spec car to dick around the track aimlessly so Don Panoz can sell some spec cars and promote his materials business. There is a restrictive rulebook as is, but even with that, we still see stuff like different hybrid systems and different engine displacements. Obviously there are the different fuels. I know they say that sex sells, but there's enough openness within the rules creating legitimate excitement that we don't need gimmicks on the track like Barney Rubble's Bam-Bam sausage on wheels to gain attention.

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Old 7 Feb 2012, 10:56 (Ref:3022592)   #399
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The whole point of the DW is half the weight, half the drag, half the power, and half the tire wear/fuel consumption, but just as quick if not quicker.

A half-weight car isn't exactly unconventional by itself, though it would probably require lots of exotic materials in a conventional layout, and thus would be very expensive. Reducing drag by that level pretty much requires a fighter jet-like design like the DW anyway. And you can't drop the power/tire wear/fuel consumption that much without doing both half-weight and half-drag.
they could have built a lightweight/less drag lmp. For instance on the r18 the designers saved weight wherever they could, and this gave them better balancing options or something like that (although I think thats because of the different materials used). And during a construction of any lmp car, I would imagine reducing drag is critical (or rather finding the balance betwen less drag and more df), especially if the lmp is designed for le mans. For instance, wirth came up with a lower drag front overhang design for the 01e that will be carried over to the 03a I imagine.
as for "spec racing" I think there is still plenty of variety in every class with different designs/makes.

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Old 7 Feb 2012, 16:55 (Ref:3022719)   #400
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So allowing a spec car to "race" in the hopes that it will sell more spec cars down the road for Panoz and company is going to counter spec car racing? Ummm, ok. That's an Athertonism if I've ever seen one.



By that definition, almost anything can be a sports car. Why not let 2 seater F1 cars or Indycars race at Le Mans then? Well, hell, I guess they are.

If the ACO wants to see lighter cars mixing it up with heavier cars, bring back LMP675/LMP900. That way differing technologies and philosophies can compete without writing a rulebook just for one spec car to dick around the track aimlessly so Don Panoz can sell some spec cars and promote his materials business. There is a restrictive rulebook as is, but even with that, we still see stuff like different hybrid systems and different engine displacements. Obviously there are the different fuels. I know they say that sex sells, but there's enough openness within the rules creating legitimate excitement that we don't need gimmicks on the track like Barney Rubble's Bam-Bam sausage on wheels to gain attention.
You're letting personal feelings on the matter get the better of you here, I feel.

If you offered me a choice between the DW and a normal sportscar, I'd take the normal sportscar. But that's not an option. And the DW is not at Le Mans instead of a deserving entry - it's an additional one.

If you take a Jaguar D-Type, one of the most iconic sportscars of the 1950s, and lined it up next to an Oreca 03 and a DeltaWing, which would look closer to the original thing?

Your idea of a "conventional sportscar" is only a creation of the current rulebook. If the Oreca 03 raced at Le Mans in 1959, the purists would have been coming out with the same stuff.

This car is experimental. It's wierd, it's odd...it's curious. It's obvious that cars won't look like this in the future as it's basically a concept car that will find its way in to competition.
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