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Old 15 Mar 2017, 09:06 (Ref:3718752)   #1
kerb
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educational?

hello all

I when through my first thread (if you are wondering about it, DONT) and I broke so many rule of thumbs, mostly about pit outs and length and expectation vs reality in the case of numeral uno. and I saw other first tracks and some (not all) had similar rookie issues. so I made this thread so experienced users could teach rule of thumbs and tips about placements and definitions and stuff.

this is almost a written podcast

please don't submit circuits on this thread (do your own for that) but if you have a section example about a certain topic like pit out and kerb placement, put them up.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 09:12 (Ref:3718755)   #2
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and of course we are going to have different views on topics so it will be interesting to hear what everyone thinks about it


so first topic shall be the grid to turn 1 and if people feel it would be better longer or shorter
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 13:30 (Ref:3718820)   #3
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There is already an instructional based on Sketchup, pinned at the top of my track. Some of what's in there will carry over to free hand as well. But any particular questions ask away
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 13:39 (Ref:3718823)   #4
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NaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I like straights where the previous and next corner are opposite. An example of this is Sepang. It requires vehicles to change sides, which causes interesting moves.

Also, I like not totally straight straights. Red Bull Ring's backstraight and Istanbul's kink are good examples.
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 20:08 (Ref:3718892)   #5
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I like straights where the previous and next corner are opposite. An example of this is Sepang. It requires vehicles to change sides, which causes interesting moves.

Also, I like not totally straight straights. Red Bull Ring's backstraight and Istanbul's kink are good examples.
like Surfers Paradise's front straight?
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Old 15 Mar 2017, 20:39 (Ref:3718901)   #6
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There is already an instructional based on Sketchup, pinned at the top of my track. Some of what's in there will carry over to free hand as well. But any particular questions ask away
I know, and there are several other threads that have bits of this and bits of that, but what I was thinking was to put it all on one thread instead of having something on page 4 (t1 hairpins-AOB?)
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Old 16 Mar 2017, 13:41 (Ref:3719065)   #7
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like Surfers Paradise's front straight?
That's not enough. I mean where cars go from one side to the other.
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Old 17 Mar 2017, 21:55 (Ref:3719480)   #8
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ok some initial rules of thumb, they aren't set in stone and there are many circuits which contradict them.

1 Pit garages and race control combine = 300m
2 If pit exit is to be on pit straight then it has to be 100m before the T1 apex (I believe that's an FIA rule)
3 Pits on the inside of T1 makes easier design
4 Run offs and travel traps don't need to be as big as you first think, look at some real word circuits on google earth.
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Old 19 Mar 2017, 03:22 (Ref:3719935)   #9
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You think we could merge all these informational threads into one big one and pin it for later use, SBF? Or would that be way too much work for a mere mortal?

Last edited by AoB Special Stage; 19 Mar 2017 at 03:23. Reason: I know English, honest.
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Old 19 Mar 2017, 10:54 (Ref:3719988)   #10
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It could be done, but I think kerb had something more as a general rule of thumb thread, rather than a formal instructional.

Kerb?
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Old 20 Mar 2017, 04:56 (Ref:3720101)   #11
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i intended it to be a rule of thumb thread, but it may be wise to have a full instructional in the top of the page
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Old 20 Mar 2017, 22:35 (Ref:3720309)   #12
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So lets add some more things that you have discovered apply regularly to designs and one we are happy I'll lock this off, and someone can formalise it into a new thread that I'll sticky.
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Old 21 Mar 2017, 06:42 (Ref:3720365)   #13
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there are several points from other threads should be brought up, these being:
difference between bike and car circuits (AOB)
t1 hairpins (also AOB)
FIA standards on length and run offs
notes on track design (purist) would be a nice tutorial.

there could be others that may be on further pages
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Old 27 Mar 2017, 23:13 (Ref:3721997)   #14
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This is what I usually work to:

Track length - usually on the shorter side, around 3-4km
Track width - around 12 metres -/+ 2m
Kerb width - 1 metre (concrete)
White line width - 0.2 metres (for visibility)
Pit exit line width - 0.3 metres (for visibility)
Pit lane length - between 250m and 300m
Pit fast lane width - 5 metres
Pit slow lane width - 5 metres

I have started using different shades of tarmac, to signify which areas are used more. Darker = standard config, lighter = less used / older config.

Pit exit at least 100m before turn 1, although for me, visibility of cars rejoining, and a gradual blend are more important than the actual distance.

Armco height is 1 metre, concrete pit wall height is 1.3 metres, tire height is 0.9 metres and thickness 2 metres, doubled up at the end of long straights or where required. Fence height (along pit wall, in front of grandstands, and some corners) is 3 metres. These dimensions are more for aesthetics and are not FIA regs.

My general rule for runoffs is as follows:

Depth up to 80m or more if at the end of a long straight, but I normally try to shrink it down to keep it more realistic, In my early designs I always added way to much runoff.

Majority of runoff is tarmac except for gravel deep into a large runoff. From the mid corner around to the exit, at the track edge I normally have 2m of grass, then 3m of gravel to keep cars within track limits. A 4m wide rejoining road is at the end of the runoff area.

In terms of FIA regulation, I think theres lots of info here: http://www.fia.com/circuit-safety

and a pdf for circuit drawing guidelines here: http://www.fia.com/circuit-list-requ...cuit-drawing-0

T1 hairpins: I use them sometimes, as long as they are quite open and not too slow (like Zandvoort or Daytona road, for example).

General notes on track design:

Working in 3D helps me a lot. It's great to be able to get down low, to really understand the flow of a circuit. Being able to put yourself on the track also helps with more logical barrier positioning, and other things like spectator sightlines etc. Adding elevation change is an easy way to add interest, but since I build all my circuits on a flat plane, I feel I have to make my circuits interesting enough that they don't need to have elevation change to be good circuits. This might be a weird concept, but its how I design circuits that I am happy with, within the limitations of SketchUp.

tldr; it's complicated

Feel free to ask questions if there is anything else...
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Old 3 Apr 2017, 02:19 (Ref:3723397)   #15
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great SKG, there was another point you raised in SBFs thread last year about pit in, about how the lane pulls away from the track. and the reason you raised it was in the case of a sudden downpour and having cars on slicks on a wet track.

I would also like to add having a downhill run into the lane like the Hamilton street circuit, I think it was during the 2011 Saturday race there were incidents into pitlane with the water running down the hill.

and that brings up another point, circuit drainage, cause correct me if I'm wrong, running water would be as bad as standing water, so if someone wants to pursue this as a profession that's another thing to consider. especially following the Japanese GP 2014 where the worlds greatest were aquaplaning under safety car conditions.
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