How Good Is Sebastien Loeb?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chunder

Does anyone still watch WRC??

Bit like F1 when Scheuy was winning these days!

Sad but dull, shame for Seb though, he is one of the best but will always be remembered as the guy that won when there was noone left!

A good point I thought and worth it's own thread - how good is Seb? He's looking like taking this years title in record time and already the question "will he win them all?" has been raised. Clearly Seb is the class of the field at the moment but at the moment the field is pretty weak. Sordo can't touch him, Hirvonen and Latvala can push him on the loose but seem to be driving on the absolute limit to do so and Petter is hamstrung by his car.

There is no Gronholm, Sainz, McRae, Makinen etc out there at the moment to measure Seb against and as chunder says whilst he's going to rack up a whole load of titles people will forever question just how deserving they were.

[nic.v814]

Loeb is good its just sad he never really had quality opposition except gronholm and solberg when subaru was doing well now he just has hirvonen all we can do is hope someone else steps up to really challenge him.

[irxcrossi]

Nobody doubts gronholms ability and he couldnt beat loeb so why doubt sebs quality..

i personally think he deserves any titles he has and is truly a world class driver who happens to make the rest of the field look ordinary by comparision so people then question his competitors.. His performance in the ROC also shows his ability, as does his tests in F1 and other classes.

We're watching a driver at the top of his game who now can even beat the scandinavians on their own surface. He is so far ahead of everyone else people complain just like the schumi era but its not their fault that their that good.

[Graz]

Loeb is without doubt one of the best of all time. Rallying is in pretty poor fettle right now though so I wonder will he go sportscar racing sooner rather than later?

[leonidas]

Loeb really needs some competition within his own team - both for his own good and for the health of the WRC. The rest of the Citroen drivers seem to be out of their depth. I know there are budgetary problems but if you are going to dedicate large amounts of cash to the WRC you may as well hire the best pedlers you can. I wonder if Solberg's private outing in a Citroen (albeit a three year old shed) is a sign of a closer relationship...

You can't doubt his class though. I'm sure Loeb wishes there was more competition - he's not getting the credit he deserves. Has anyone ever been better on tarmac? Maybe Munari or Rohrl at their very best but it would be close.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Petter's car is actually from 2001, but updated. I think Loeb is as good as the now retired old guard, and I think Citroën is some distance ahead of Ford.

[chunder]

I think that Loeb is rightly deserving of his status as a top man, but in reality Marcus great days were in the 206, he never got on with the 307 and was often on the wrong tyres in that car.

Loeb it has to be said is better on gravel than Marcus was on tar

But for me the best are always gonna be McRae, Makinen, Sainz, Auriol, Burns, Kankkunen etc

These guys, especially Carlos were good anywhere and able to beat a whole host of chellengers, Loeb just has to be one or two Fords usually.

I think Seb would still eb able to win rallies in the 80's and 90's, but I just doint think as many

You ahve to say that for Tommi to win what he did was simply amazing, he was quick anywhere and beat a whole host of talent on the way, whilst developnig car

Sad thing was he couldnt repeat in Subaru as Carlos was able to win in anything!

[WJM]

Originally Posted by chunder

Loeb it has to be said is better on gravel than Marcus was on tar

Loeb is also better on gravel than Marcus on gravel. Just look at the last few years.

But for me the best are always gonna be McRae, Makinen, Sainz, Auriol, Burns, Kankkunen etc

Loeb has beaten all of them except KKK head to head and in the same car as Mcrae and Sainz. And that was when he was just started, he is a lot better driver now.

These guys, especially Carlos were good anywhere and able to beat a whole host of chellengers, Loeb just has to be one or two Fords usually.

Actually the only one who is good anywhere is Loeb. He has won every rally at least once.

I think Seb would still eb able to win rallies in the 80's and 90's, but I just doint think as many

Of course, this is just simple math. In Loebs days until now, there were 16 rallies a year in which every factory driver is forced to participate in. Back in the 80's-90's there were less rallies and not every driver competed in every rally. Also, the cars are much more reliable now, which helps.

[chunder]

I guess you are a fna then judging by the endless dissection!

I am too believe me

I just dont think he would win as many rallies against the greats as against the opposition now.

Marcus was nearly always quicker on most gravel rallies, but being faster doesnt mean you win, it means you crash more!!

Of course you can argue that Seb has beaten everyone in equal cars, but the same cannot be said of him now can it

Faster than Salonen in a 205, Blomqvist in a Quattro, Colin in a 555, Gronholm in a 206, Sainz in a 165 Celica, Tommi in an Evo5

I doubt it

When he wins a title in a Ford he can rightly claim to be the best ever, until then he is equal to them

[Cryos]

Originally Posted by chunder

I guess you are a fna then judging by the endless dissection!

I am too believe me

I just dont think he would win as many rallies against the greats as against the opposition now.

Marcus was nearly always quicker on most gravel rallies, but being faster doesnt mean you win, it means you crash more!!

Of course you can argue that Seb has beaten everyone in equal cars, but the same cannot be said of him now can it

Faster than Salonen in a 205, Blomqvist in a Quattro, Colin in a 555, Gronholm in a 206, Sainz in a 165 Celica, Tommi in an Evo5

I doubt it

When he wins a title in a Ford he can rightly claim to be the best ever, until then he is equal to them

Your logic escapes me sometimes; he can beat anyone in anycar... ever heard of RofC ?

[dano550]

Miko, latvalla petter and sordo are still some of the best drivers in the world and are far better than most people give them credit for.

loeb is just that extra bit faster and doesnt get any credit because he makes it look easy to beat the fords. even if there were 6 manufacture teams and he was still winnning everything he still wouldnt get any more recognition purely because he makes it look so easy to win

will he do s2000s when the rules change or do you think he will move to somthing else then?

[alamaki205]

I think that Seb is good but not as good as the likes of Juha, Tommi and Carlos

Mainly coz those guys were quick in all sorts of cars.

I think Seb needs to do a Rossi and drive for someone else!

And as for RoC, well thats just a gimmick, Schuey is the best at that and that says it all!

[nic.v814]

Originally Posted by alamaki205

I think that Seb is good but not as good as the likes of Juha, Tommi and Carlos

Mainly coz those guys were quick in all sorts of cars.

I think Seb needs to do a Rossi and drive for someone else!

And as for RoC, well thats just a gimmick, Schuey is the best at that and that says it all!

Also comparing drivers from other generations just isnt possible, who knows how well the old group b drivers would handle a new citreon or how well loeb would do in a group b car

Why would he leave the top team in the championship?

[alamaki205]

Ha, well thats the point of discussion isnt it, not to sither and state fact but inject some life into a boring championship

He must be bored too surely!!

Not everyone wants to win easy, ask Lawson, Rossi, Schuamcher, plenty of NASCAR drivers, they all want to prove they can win in anything, part of one's ego!

I agree its pointless to compare but we all do it and will contineu to do so.

[275 GTB-4]

I watched Seb's tour de force in Norway today....the man is a genius...he must rank in the top ten all time greats

[alamaki205]

I would say top 5 all time really

And that 5 would be for me

Seb, Kankkunen, Sainz, Makinen and Rohrl, in no order!!

Honrable mentions for speed rather than consistency go to Henri, Alen, McRae, Auriol etc etc!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by alamaki205

I would say top 5 all time really

And that 5 would be for me

Seb, Kankkunen, Sainz, Makinen and Rohrl, in no order!!

Honrable mentions for speed rather than consistency go to Henri, Alen, McRae, Auriol etc etc!

No Ari??

[alamaki205]

Gotta be honest no, he crashed too much!!

Thats whay he, McRae etc are not in my personal list

They are all quick but same as for me I would always rate Prost above Senna coz Alain was not prepared to deliberately crash into a another car because he couldnt start from the side of the grid he wanted!

[leonidas]

Well, if you don't crash sometimes you'll bloody well not trying hard enough!

I'd have to put in a shout for Eric Carlsson as an all time great. For most of his career he was (driving a Saab) giving a massive horsepower advantage to all his opponents - and quite often beating them. I still can't work out how you can beat a Austin Healey 3000 in a Saab 96 - but he managed to. It is almost the equivalent of winning a modern WRC event in a Group N car. With Timo Makinen, he revolutionised the sport and showed everyone just how far ahead the Scandinavians were of the rest of the world.

Its a pity the WRC doesn't have an official 'hall of fame'...

[nic.v814]

A rallying hall of fame is a really good idea