Flames

[chewymonster]

I saw some Australian V8 Supercars on Speed tonight. It was pretty nice racing, but the exhaust flames seem to be done on purpose or something. I know that race cars have flames, but I have never seen a race car that has flames on every corner. I also see that the official website has lots of flames in it.

[James63]

Somehow I dont think exhaust flames exist simply to entertain.

[M-Kart]

It's not enternainment, thats the way the cars run, with fuel mixes that are rich enough te have unburnt fuel flaming on most downshifts.

There was a while there where the HRT cars seemed to flame waay more than the others - this seemd to co-incide with their dominat period from 1998-2002. of late though, most teams have cars that seem to flame as much as HRTs cars, suggesting that most teams have reached a point now using the Shell Optimax fuel that they all run quite rich aswell.

[chewymonster]

Well, I know that flames occur sometimes in race cars. Usually when you watch a race you will see a couple. But the Australian V8 supercars have flames on each and every gearshift basically as if it's done on purpose. I just have never seen a race car that has exhaust flames so much, so I assumed that they are done for an effect.

[Henry]

IN the early 90's, the cars ran so rich, they belched black smoke like diesels... Dick Johnson always said how awesome it was testing the first of the real firebreathing Sierras on dusk, shooting metre-long flames on over-run...

[cmifsud]

The explosions occur when the unburnt fuel escapes into the exhaust and explodes. Also, chevymonster, how did you think the flames got their purely for entertainment? There isn't a button on the dashboard saying catch on fire now.

[chewymonster]

I am just comparing them to other race cars that have an occasional flame, not every downshift. I guess they are "encouraged" because other race cars don't have them that often.

[Lowndesfan6]

Maybe it's because our series has old push rod engines v other series which has quad cam engines.

[Woolley]

It tends to be more prevalent on big block engines with less than up-to-the-minute engine management. Basically it works something like this. It's more efficient to keep pushing the fuel through until you need it, and what doesn't get burnt in the pistons catches light in the hot exhaust. The shorter the exhaust (side exit) the more the flame escapes. It's a lot more technical than that, of course, and I don't pretend to understand the detail. They wouldn't do it on purpose because it uses fuel, and extra fuel is weight, so it's reasonable to assume that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

[Chatters]

Originally Posted by cmifsud

There isn't a button on the dashboard saying catch on fire now.

At least- not here. The latest crime fighting technique against car theft in South Africa engulfs your car in a ball of flame when you push a button to stop carjackers.

They claim that it leaves the paintwork unharmed, but...

[chewymonster]

NASCAR runs similar engine type and exhaust pipe, but I don't think they have as much flames.

[Raglanparade]

Nascar do not have the downshifts and braking that V8 Supercars do though.

chewymonster - you will soon realise that V8 Supercars is like the WWF, purely constructed for entertainment.

[ATC]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

NASCAR runs similar engine type and exhaust pipe, but I don't think they have as much flames.

Nascar do hame flame over runs.
Have a look at a race in Bristol and see the over run flame there !
You will see it at Daytona as well next month!

As it has been posted before the falme over run is due to the fuel mixture set up.

If you think other wise you have alot to learn about motorsport !

[Matt]

Originally Posted by ATC

Nascar do hame flame over runs.
Have a look at a race in Bristol and see the over run flame there !
You will see it at Daytona as well next month!

As it has been posted before the falme over run is due to the fuel mixture set up.

If you think other wise you have alot to learn about motorsport !

You wont see it at Daytona, they run flat-out around there.

[Kimirocks]

Originally Posted by Woolley

It tends to be more prevalent on big block engines with less than up-to-the-minute engine management. Basically it works something like this. It's more efficient to keep pushing the fuel through until you need it, and what doesn't get burnt in the pistons catches light in the hot exhaust. The shorter the exhaust (side exit) the more the flame escapes. It's a lot more technical than that, of course, and I don't pretend to understand the detail. They wouldn't do it on purpose because it uses fuel, and extra fuel is weight, so it's reasonable to assume that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

Woolley mate...

ok you might be English, but last time I checked a MoTeC M800 ECU was a pretty trick bit of kit, infact so trick that most cars at LeMans use them, and all the Carrera Cup cars around the world use them... where is it made? Australia...

ok so back to the point, why flames?

simple really... yes the engine is similar to a nascar engine but because it does have A HIGH TECH ECU it can regulate the fuel management to a very fine level. why then is it "wasting" fuel in silly show flames you ask????

Well, being a low tech engine (pushrods etc) there is a HP gain to be had from cooling the cylinder head with extra fuel, this is mainly used in the short distance races, as there is a bigger HP gain vs the extra fuel burn as fuel stops do not come into it...

So how does it cool the Cylinder head? fuel is added on the "over run" and the latent cooling caused by the evaporating fuel cools the head, and then is lit on exiting the exhaust (once the AFR becomes right)

you will see less flames on the cars at say the B1000, than a short sprint race but they can change the map settings for more power when needed etc etc...

there is some more too it but that is the basics!

[Raglanparade]

I must admit, i did see less flames at Sandown and Bathurst.

I always remember seeing the most flames at circuits such as Winton and Barbagello and Symmonds where they are relatively short circuits with a number of gear changes.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Raglanparade

chewymonster - you will soon realise that V8 Supercars is like the WWF, purely constructed for entertainment.

Im sure the World Wildlife Fund dont consider their work as entertainment

[ATC]

Originally Posted by Matt

You wont see it at Daytona, they run flat-out around there.

Well im seeing things !

Have a look at turn 1 and 3..Slight lift of of throttle to settle car and some cars depending on the engine set up WILL spit flame

Go there for the Pepsi 400 and you will see it alot better.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Kimirocks

Woolley mate...

ok you might be English, but last time I checked a MoTeC M800 ECU was a pretty trick bit of kit, infact so trick that most cars at LeMans use them, and all the Carrera Cup cars around the world use them... where is it made? Australia...

LOL. I confess to having no idea of what runs the electronics in an Aussie V8, so based my comment on one of the earlier posts! That said, it does seem prevalant on the type of car I mentioned. As well!

Cooling - now that makes sense, and I hadn't thought of that as being the reason for continuing to push fuel through, but it's obvious once it's pointed out. Thanks for that.

[BJ 888]

Flames are spat out of a V8 Supercar during most downshifts. Its one of the best part of the sport, but it isn't done just for entertainment, its a normal mechanical occurence.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by Kimirocks

Woolley mate...

ok you might be English, but last time I checked a MoTeC M800 ECU was a pretty trick bit of kit, infact so trick that most cars at LeMans use them, and all the Carrera Cup cars around the world use them... where is it made? Australia...

ok so back to the point, why flames?

simple really... yes the engine is similar to a nascar engine but because it does have A HIGH TECH ECU it can regulate the fuel management to a very fine level. why then is it "wasting" fuel in silly show flames you ask????

Well, being a low tech engine (pushrods etc) there is a HP gain to be had from cooling the cylinder head with extra fuel, this is mainly used in the short distance races, as there is a bigger HP gain vs the extra fuel burn as fuel stops do not come into it...

So how does it cool the Cylinder head? fuel is added on the "over run" and the latent cooling caused by the evaporating fuel cools the head, and then is lit on exiting the exhaust (once the AFR becomes right)

you will see less flames on the cars at say the B1000, than a short sprint race but they can change the map settings for more power when needed etc etc...

there is some more too it but that is the basics!

Except last time I checked, a V8 Supercar used a cut down M48 POS.

And cooling engine internals by pouring fuel on them went out of fashion with flares.

[Denosaur]

Was reading something the other day about overlapping on the cam.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by Chucky

And cooling engine internals by pouring fuel on them went out of fashion with flares.

Hey maann, don't get heavy on my wheel arch extensions... they're totally coool, maan