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Old 16 Feb 2018, 19:10 (Ref:3801894)   #76
crossfades
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crossfades should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I feel sorry for the frontrunners.

First they have to deal with the snow.

Then on the second run they have to deal with the tracks from the historic cars that has gone before them, which is a joke really. A bunch of hobbyists and amateurs doing a meaningless event shouldn't affect teams and drivers competing in world championships.
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 19:56 (Ref:3801897)   #77
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justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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A bunch of hobbyists and amateurs doing a meaningless event shouldn't affect teams and drivers competing in world championships.
Petter Solberg and the like are amateurs?
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 21:07 (Ref:3801909)   #78
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Petter Solberg and the like are amateurs?
There are exceptions of course but it is a giant difference between a few and the average drivers. Solberg is in an Escort leading 4x4 cars for example. Can't compare him and a few other really with guys in Group B cars that isn't even top 10.

It doesn't change the fact that the historic cars are competing at the expense of WRC for nothing really. They should be going after them, not before them. Don't understand how FIA hasn't done anything about it since it has been the same story during the last years, Ogier said it himself today calling it a joke.
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 21:52 (Ref:3801918)   #79
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justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It does seem a bit strange unless their being used to "clean" the stage?
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Old 16 Feb 2018, 22:41 (Ref:3801928)   #80
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It does seem a bit strange unless their being used to "clean" the stage?
If you mean that the historic cars are being used to clean the stage, it shouldn't be the case at least since they make it worse for WRC. Conditions can be quite tricky on ice and snow.

They have smaller tires than the WRC cars so the WRC cars can't drive in their tracks/ruts. The historic cars have different lines as well, Ogier mentioned it last year saying he couldn't believe how spread out their lines were. They can also tend to drag out snow from the banks since most of them are RWD.

Unfortunately this rally has turned into something of a "railway" rally in the sense that they have to stay on the ruts and lines. If you go outside them you get in the loose snow, lose time and/or make the conditions better for those coming behind.

If you go onto the live text on the WRC website you will see that many of the drivers mentions ruts and lines in one way or another, mostly saying that they are trying to stay in them.
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Old 17 Feb 2018, 22:23 (Ref:3802076)   #81
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Originally Posted by crossfades View Post
I feel sorry for the frontrunners.

First they have to deal with the snow.

Then on the second run they have to deal with the tracks from the historic cars that has gone before them, which is a joke really. A bunch of hobbyists and amateurs doing a meaningless event shouldn't affect teams and drivers competing in world championships.
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It doesn't change the fact that the historic cars are competing at the expense of WRC for nothing really. They should be going after them, not before them. Don't understand how FIA hasn't done anything about it since it has been the same story during the last years, Ogier said it himself today calling it a joke.
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If you mean that the historic cars are being used to clean the stage, it shouldn't be the case at least since they make it worse for WRC. Conditions can be quite tricky on ice and snow.

They have smaller tires than the WRC cars so the WRC cars can't drive in their tracks/ruts. The historic cars have different lines as well, Ogier mentioned it last year saying he couldn't believe how spread out their lines were. They can also tend to drag out snow from the banks since most of them are RWD.
I haven't seen the full timetable for the historic event in relation to the WRC but is it not the case of the stages being multi use that is the problem? So the WRC cars go through, then the WRC2 cars, then the various other classes (including historics) - then they go off and do other stages and then come back to repeat the stage. So the WRC cars go through first again but are running in whatever ruts have been left by the whole field on the first pass - then the rest of the field follows them through.

It's the same problem you see on forest events over here where the 2wd cars end up struggling through stages that have been chewed to pieces by the 4wd machines at the head of the field. It's rallying - you just have to deal with the conditions you're faced with.
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 07:54 (Ref:3802106)   #82
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Used to be the case in BTRDA that the 1400 cars ran first, then some 2wd cars.

But that didnt last forever!
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 08:58 (Ref:3802111)   #83
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I haven't seen the full timetable for the historic event in relation to the WRC but is it not the case of the stages being multi use that is the problem? So the WRC cars go through, then the WRC2 cars, then the various other classes (including historics) - then they go off and do other stages and then come back to repeat the stage. So the WRC cars go through first again but are running in whatever ruts have been left by the whole field on the first pass - then the rest of the field follows them through.

It's the same problem you see on forest events over here where the 2wd cars end up struggling through stages that have been chewed to pieces by the 4wd machines at the head of the field. It's rallying - you just have to deal with the conditions you're faced with.
They will always have to deal with the other classes of WRC no matter what, everywhere. But they have the same tires at least.

Historic cars is something they mention every year. Ogier seems to be sick of it and he is pretty much "punished" for being the best at Monte Carlo. He is in tenth at the moment +4:18 after Neuville. I think that says it all about the conditions he as to face compared with those later back on the start list.

The biggest problem with multi use in Sweden is the gravel that comes due to thin ice. Weather problems, this rally's to be or not to be, can make the stages even worse. In this case the stages are in bad shape already and multi use makes it much worse. The ruts is a problem just for the first few and it gets faster with every car.

I agree to some extent that a drivers has to deal with the conditions. But since it is a World Championship round and guys who compete at the very top level of rallying, they shouldn't be bothered by 40+ cars competing for the heck of it.
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 11:18 (Ref:3802135)   #84
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Looks to be a good weekend for Breen and a superb drive from Katsuta in WRC2.
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Old 18 Feb 2018, 22:51 (Ref:3802251)   #85
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Any thoughts on Ogier's strategy for the Power Stage?
Personally, I don't like it, but the rules allows such things and I've got to say it was a pretty clever move.
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 08:32 (Ref:3802314)   #86
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I agree to some extent that a drivers has to deal with the conditions. But since it is a World Championship round and guys who compete at the very top level of rallying, they shouldn't be bothered by 40+ cars competing for the heck of it.
But without those 40+ cars 'competing for the heck of it' there wouldn't be much of an event would there? If you only had the WRC classes it's a pretty small entry. It does seem to have more of an impact in Sweden than on other events but it's pretty much the nature of the beast with this event - as noted above - it's the same every year so you know it's going to be like that.

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Looks to be a good weekend for Breen and a superb drive from Katsuta in WRC2.
Agreed - Breen was very impressive this weekend, he kept it clean and made the most of his road position. Neuville similarly impressive (and took advantage of road position too). Katsuta surprised me in WRC2 - I didn't expect him to be right up at the sharp end - with so many locals in WRC2 he's done really well to beat them all.

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Any thoughts on Ogier's strategy for the Power Stage?
Personally, I don't like it, but the rules allows such things and I've got to say it was a pretty clever move.
Given he'd had the shitty end of the stick all weekend regarding road position I think it was a sensible move - he managed to salvage something from what was a very trying weekend for him. The rules allow it so play the long game and pick up some points from a weekend that really looked like a big fat '0'.
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 09:24 (Ref:3802328)   #87
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There were 59 cars in total in WRC, in Monte Carlo it was 49 and they had an historic rally a few days after WRC. If anything the historic cars should be going last, not in between WRC. Rally Sweden have had the historic cars for five years or so now, it hasn't always been part of the event so I think they could do without it.

Katsuta was the biggest surprise for me for sure. Tidemand, Veiby, Åhlin etc could literally drive from home and recce at the stages in advance if they wanted and they already have lots of experience.

I due wonder though how big of a difference there was between the Pirelli tires, which Katsuta used, and the Michelins which Tidemand and Veiby had. Tidemand said himself that he went flat out and couldn't catch Katsuta. Nonetheless, Katsuta did a great job of keeping up the pace and staying on the road.
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 10:32 (Ref:3802336)   #88
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Some seem to think that the Ogier move was sneaky, but I personally see it as a smart decision. And even if people do think it was underhand, I think it's daft that fingers are being pointed directly at Ogier. Do people really think he'd pull a trick like that without the approval of the team?

Four more points that he probably wouldn't have picked up without the late check in and a bit of damage limitation to what was otherwise a miserable weekend thanks to the running order. Some don't seem to like it, but I think it's the mark of a smart driver backed by a smart team. And smart drivers win Championships...

...very surprised that Citroen didn't tell Meeke to do the same thing. That said I just saw a post on another forum that said Meeke didn't hand his timecard in at the end of the rally, so apparently he can get a "free" engine for Mexico?

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64.2.3 When a car does not finish a rally, an extra engine per seasonally allocated car number may be allowed without incurring a penalty. No more than 2 extra engines per seasonally allocated car number and per season may be sealed without incurring any penalty.
When an extra engine is used, the engine which was fitted on a retired car (seasonally allocated car number) may not be used any further during the season (see Art. 64.1.4).
Great result for Breen, especially given the car he is driving. Katsuta was the most surprising result of the weekend for me as well, superb result for him.
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 10:47 (Ref:3802343)   #89
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Some seem to think that the Ogier move was sneaky, but I personally see it as a smart decision. And even if people do think it was underhand, I think it's daft that fingers are being pointed directly at Ogier. Do people really think he'd pull a trick like that without the approval of the team?

Four more points that he probably wouldn't have picked up without the late check in and a bit of damage limitation to what was otherwise a miserable weekend thanks to the running order. Some don't seem to like it, but I think it's the mark of a smart driver backed by a smart team. And smart drivers win Championships...
That's my take on it - what it boiled down was a simple "would you like some points or not?" decision. They would have been daft to do anything else - which leads us to:

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...very surprised that Citroen didn't tell Meeke to do the same thing. That said I just saw a post on another forum that said Meeke didn't hand his timecard in at the end of the rally, so apparently he can get a "free" engine for Mexico?
Whilst a "free" replacement engine is good I'd have thought it a bit early in the year to start pulling that one. Meeke has 1 more "free" extra engine - it doesn't take much to knacker an engine in a shunt and given Meekes recent track record I'd be keeping my "free" engines in my pocket for now.

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Great result for Breen, especially given the car he is driving.
Road position undeniably helped but it was still an impressive result - the Citroen does look to be the worst of the cars (the others seem quite well matched). Breen doesn't seem to be under as much pressure to get results as Meeke (I assume that's because he's only got a part season) and genuinely seemed to be enjoying himself out there - which is always good to see, sometimes you get the impression the pros are just doing a job but Breen does seem to take huge pleasure from it.
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Old 19 Feb 2018, 11:58 (Ref:3802362)   #90
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Road position undeniably helped but it was still an impressive result - the Citroen does look to be the worst of the cars (the others seem quite well matched).
Yeah. I have seen a few onboards from the weekend and the three Citroen drivers all look like they are fighting the car.

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Breen doesn't seem to be under as much pressure to get results as Meeke (I assume that's because he's only got a part season) and genuinely seemed to be enjoying himself out there - which is always good to see, sometimes you get the impression the pros are just doing a job but Breen does seem to take huge pleasure from it.
Yeah, I like Meeke, but he seems to have a permanent grimace on his face these days (sure I would if I was driving the C3 as well! ). As you say, Breen looks like he is really enjoying himself.

MINOR OFF TOPIC: I actually met Craig Breen at a trackday last year. Only briefly spoke to him, but he seemed a genuinely nice bloke.
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Old 24 Feb 2018, 14:40 (Ref:3803616)   #91
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Neuville wins that puts him in the lead of the championship, should be another title shot for him. Ogier probably did the right, how he was screwed over it was only fair he legally redressed the balance
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Old 9 Mar 2018, 16:33 (Ref:3807084)   #92
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This weekend it's the Rally México at León, Guanajuato.

There are 11 WRC entries, including no less than Sébastien Loeb / Daniel Elena on the #11 Citroën C3.
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Old 9 Mar 2018, 21:10 (Ref:3807145)   #93
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This weekend it's the Rally México at León, Guanajuato.

There are 11 WRC entries, including no less than Sébastien Loeb / Daniel Elena on the #11 Citroën C3.
It'll be interesting to see how Loeb gets on this weekend. I'm not sure what he's got to gain by doing the event though?
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Old 10 Mar 2018, 15:55 (Ref:3807246)   #94
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Nearly everyone is having problems... and Loeb takes the lead!
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Old 11 Mar 2018, 20:15 (Ref:3807405)   #95
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Loeb got a puncture and lost the lead.

2018 Rally Mexico final results:

1. FRA Sébastien Ogier (Ford) 3:53'58
2. ESP Daniel Sordo (Hyundai) + 1'13
3. GBR Kris Meeke (Citroën) + 1'29
4. NOR Andreas Mikkelsen (Hyundai) + 1'48
5. FRA Sébastien Loeb (Citroën) + 2'34
6. BEL Thierry Neuville (Hyundai) + 9'13
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Old 12 Mar 2018, 22:21 (Ref:3807590)   #96
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Quite a good rally, I certainly enjoyed it even when normal service was resumed at the front at the end of day 2. There was still enough drama going on to keep me watching, you just couldn't tell what was going to happen to whom.

Mexico has some really lovely stages, El Brinco is fabulous to watch.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 19:32 (Ref:3807779)   #97
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Anyone know why C5 aren’t showing the highlights tonight?
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 23:45 (Ref:3808447)   #98
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What's all this I hear about Ogier being stripped of the powerstage points for cutting a chicane? I was unaware as the official WRC site does not have anything about it - that I can see anyway. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
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Old 17 Mar 2018, 08:28 (Ref:3808476)   #99
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He was not stripped of his powerstage points as such. He received a 10 second penalty for cutting.
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Old 17 Mar 2018, 20:27 (Ref:3808635)   #100
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He was not stripped of his powerstage points as such. He received a 10 second penalty for cutting.
Yep - standard single venue event stuff - hit a chicane and you get penalised.
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