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Old 15 Jul 2005, 17:31 (Ref:1356411)   #1
Kirk
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Human Garages

It's appears that the one tyre rule is here for this year and beyond but I am a bit surprised by the number of pit crew guys that still "attend" the car. One commentator referred to the guys standing around as human garages. I like the analogy that they look like a city road crew on any given day. One or two guys do all the work, the rest observe. Should that number be reduced? I think so.
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Old 15 Jul 2005, 18:10 (Ref:1356432)   #2
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ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
A maximum limit of pitcrew a la NASCAR would be a good idea IMO.
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Old 15 Jul 2005, 18:26 (Ref:1356436)   #3
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I agree. Guys don't usually get hit in the pits, but it happens. There's no need to expose someone to danger so that they can stand there and act in the case of a 1/500 freak situation.
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Old 15 Jul 2005, 20:10 (Ref:1356502)   #4
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beau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbeau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbeau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
yes but there is still an chance that an freak situation could happen
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Old 15 Jul 2005, 20:14 (Ref:1356505)   #5
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Yes, that's why we're suggesting there's no need for them to stand there, isn;t it?
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Old 15 Jul 2005, 20:22 (Ref:1356508)   #6
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beau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbeau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbeau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
wait a minute i think i read snrub's post wrong
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Old 15 Jul 2005, 20:37 (Ref:1356520)   #7
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I thought so.....
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Old 15 Jul 2005, 22:32 (Ref:1356575)   #8
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Originally Posted by Kirk
It's appears that the one tyre rule is here for this year and beyond but I am a bit surprised by the number of pit crew guys that still "attend" the car. One commentator referred to the guys standing around as human garages. I like the analogy that they look like a city road crew on any given day. One or two guys do all the work, the rest observe. Should that number be reduced? I think so.
But GPs are on Sundays - they'd at least be pretending to do something to get their overtime...
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 07:23 (Ref:1356682)   #9
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twig should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What do they actually do anyway? Don't they kneel down, have a visual look over the tyres, put their hand around the surface of it - check pressures, and sometimes i remember, some other guy checks the temperature on the surface as well.
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 11:08 (Ref:1356744)   #10
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Rennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It does look bizzar...but if there was a wheel to change or an adjustment to make...less vital time would be lost over crew being brought out the garage to do the job. Also these crews are all experts...so they have a vital role just looking and checking!
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 11:26 (Ref:1356754)   #11
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this one tyre rule is killing F1
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 11:31 (Ref:1356757)   #12
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Rennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRennen should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Well it hasn't added anything...it's taken away a lot of the driver skill and limits the true potential of the cars over the distance.
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 17:08 (Ref:1356872)   #13
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What? How has it taken away from it? Are you trying to get at the 'being able to adjust to changing grip levels' thing? If anything, i think it has helped.

Don't forget, the conclusion of the races were usually very entertaining. Not recently though.

I hope that doesn't mean the teams are getting a handle on it - otherwise the thrilling conclusions may be a thing of the past.

Anyway, back on topic.
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 18:31 (Ref:1356914)   #14
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The teams are just staying in shape for when we return to tyre changes
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 18:43 (Ref:1356921)   #15
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Please do not destroy this thread by discussing the tyre rules again.

Let us allow this nuance (and others) be discussed without go over the same old ground again.
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 18:49 (Ref:1356925)   #16
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Please do not destroy this thread by discussing the tyre rules again.

Let us allow this nuance (and others) be discussed without go over the same old ground again.

Sorry Adam, not intentional on my behalf
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 18:56 (Ref:1356931)   #17
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That is quite alright.

Anyway. Concerning the safety. Well there is an issue with safety for the mechanics. However there is also an issue with safety for the driver when he goes back out. The tyres get a check over and something may be spotted and changed. Again unlikey, but as we are talking unlikely.

Also there these people do do things to the car. They clear the radiators, the change the tyre pressure and wing settings. They may be needed if something is spotted. These things involve a risk, but it may make the difference to winning or losing the race. It is an acceptable risk. More risky things happen in motorsport all the time and they are part of it. The very nature. To want to ban them due to the risk is OTT IMHO.

They do look a bit silly though! Although perhaps not when you consider what they do, what they can do and what they might do.
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 04:03 (Ref:1357532)   #18
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avsfan733 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Rennen
less vital time would be lost over crew being brought out the garage to do the job.
don't they have to make a seperate stop to change tires anyways kind of invaldating that? i mean i can understand like one person to check pressures and examine the tread but its still like the same as before
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 20:52 (Ref:1358068)   #19
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It did take a bit of getting used to, it was strange seeing people doing very little.

I don't care, myself. The teams could put out 30 people wearing smurf outfits for all I care.... It seems kind of pointless to start banning things.....

It is a reality that the first time something happened that having lots of "pointless" people around would have prevented/minimised the impact of would produce howls of indignation castigating the FIA for not caring about safety etc. etc.

Is it such an issue if a few guys sit around not doing very much?
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Old 19 Jul 2005, 00:25 (Ref:1358207)   #20
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by AdamAshmore
Also there these people do do things to the car. They clear the radiators, the change the tyre pressure and wing settings. They may be needed if something is spotted. These things involve a risk, but it may make the difference to winning or losing the race. It is an acceptable risk. More risky things happen in motorsport all the time and they are part of it. The very nature. To want to ban them due to the risk is OTT IMHO.
You make some good points, but if it was regulated that there only be 4-6 people over the wall they could perform the same task of clearing out the radiators and the playing field would be equal. Go back to '93 when there was still no speed limit in the pits. Few accidents happened and drivers were able to make pit stops with less of a time penalty. Consequently going to the pits is an absolute last resort. It's conceivable that a situation could arrise where a driver had a preceived minor problem and would have gone in under the unlimited pit speed rules, but wouldn't under the current rules and droped out of the race as a result. Safety for the drivers was compromised for safety for the pit crew.

Frankly I'm surprised that there aren't optical measuring devices mounted on the cars that determine the depth and condition of the tires. There are some very precise, quick, small and relatively inexpensive equipment out there that could do the job. Obviously it would be more difficult with the tires bouncing around, but perhaps they could be used in the pits or at lower speeds, if it wasn't possible to operate at high speeds.
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Old 19 Jul 2005, 14:23 (Ref:1358635)   #21
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personally i like the guy who sits in front at the ferrari garage and pretends to sleep. thats just plain brilliant.

but as for the reason for haveing so many people at each race is a result of course of needing many of them to work (worst case scenario, how many people do you need to rebuild a car overnight) but also because planning for races happening close to a full year before the season starts - and by that i mean contracts being signed, and hotels and airfare being booked, and not to mention budgets which no one ever willingly cuts. the rule change just happened this year and i would guess that it will take a few years before they straigten it out.
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Old 19 Jul 2005, 16:57 (Ref:1358720)   #22
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Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Although the sight of 20 people pouncing on a car in full speed changing tyres and fuel look grand and interesting, i for one would not mind if FIA puts a limit of say 6 people to work on the car at pit time.

6 guys would be more than sufficient for teams to get the job done. And with a restriction of only 6 people, we could see a re-introduction of tyre changes with fuel stops, as tyre-changes would take slightly longer time, and discourage teams from needless tyre changes.
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Old 19 Jul 2005, 19:14 (Ref:1358791)   #23
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I don't see how it would deter them due to it taking longer: all teams would be in the same situation, so, relatively speaking, no time at all is lost.
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Old 19 Jul 2005, 22:50 (Ref:1358912)   #24
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Gt_R's point is time is lost against not doing it. There is more time lost in a strategy that requires a pitstop tyre change than one that doesn't so it is less likely for all teams. The same reasoning means that at Magny Cours you are likely to have more pitstops because taking to the pitlane loses you less time than elsewhere.

Take it to the extreme say a pitstop takes you three hours. It doesn't matter that it is the same for everyone. It is better to not do it!
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 13:11 (Ref:1359323)   #25
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Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Thank you AA for clarifying my point
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