Tilke-Designed Circuits

[Quintin03]

That French track will not be built sadly, Would have been great. First two corners were based on those of Brands Hatch and the hairpin at the end of the back straight would have banking like Zandvoort's Tarzan corner. Those guys also did Dubai Autodrome and Hampton Downs in New-Zealand.

[Purist]

So where did you hear that that project is off?

[jab]

Was announced at the beginning of December

[Purist]

Well, fair enough. I do wish France had something to offer besides Le Mans Bugatti (tight for the bikes), Magny Cours (needs a green light for their redevelopment plans), or Paul Ricard (like Bernie is going to give up a sanction fee). Charade isn't what it used to be. Rouen and Reims are gone. And Nogaro is nowhere near what would be required, and really shouldn't be hosting anything more than TCs and F3, IMO.

[Sodemo]

I would rather have no French GP than have to watch another race at Magny Cours.

[duke_toaster]

I'd rather have a French GP there than a GP with zero attendance and a equally (if not more) dull track such as China. OK, China has its interesting first corner complex, but Magny does have some redeeming features.

[Quintin03]

You mean Paul Ricard HTTT? If they'd used the circuit closest to the original layout it would be great as long as more grandstands are constructed.

[duke_toaster]

No, I'm referring to the Chinese GP as having "no spectators" - a bit of an exaggeration, but they don't get that high attendances. Paul Ricard is an option if they stick some temporary stands down, or maybe even non-temporary ones.

[Purist]

Unfortunately, you'd lose the point of Le Castellet if they use the chicane in the middle of the Mistral. At least there's so much paved run-off that I can't foresee a repeat of what happened to Elio de Angelis.

As to the main topic, Hermann the German may have an Australian gig in the not-too-distant future. Personally, I have quite enjoyed the recent races at Albert Park.

[Andy77]

I wonder why no one mentions Dijon. I'd really love to see F1 driving circles there

[Quintin03]

With the extension please. Basicaly a design similar to the original extensin proposal but with the Parabolique retained. Maybe leaving the current route at the "Double gauche" and returning a bit after or at the next turn.

[Purist]

I'm a bit surprised I didn't mention that one.

I'm not sure how I would do the extension at Dijon. Unless you bypass Parabolique, there isn't really a clear cut-off or rejoin point, and the circuit as it is fits together very well.

[Yannick]

I'd love to see DTM return to Dijon, which unfortunately won't happen this year, but not F1. Still, as a track, it could post an interesting challenge to F1 engineers since it is a type of track that is not represented at all on the calendar these days: one which does not include anything corners you go through in anything lower than 3rd gear (I think).

IndyCar or NASCAR Nationwide should visit there. They would love the place.

[Quintin03]

Originally Posted by Yannick

IndyCar or NASCAR Nationwide should visit there. They would love the place.

The French RACECAR series, affiliated to NASCAR and racing stock cars, has scheduled a race there. It's not the real thing but it's close.

[Sodemo]

I doubt F1 cars would be "allowed" to run at Dijon in its current configuration. It would need acres of run off at every corner and a few of the fastest corners castrated. Once complete, F1 would then go there once, then never return again, leaving the track bankrupt and destroyed. Oh, hello Mt Fuji...

[Purist]

If they even try to castrate Dijon, I hope Arnoux, and Villeneuve risen from the grave, come after Tilke.

I'm curious, and I don't think it was Tilke, but does anyone know who was behind the design of the proposed Sri Lanka F1 circuit at Ceylon Autodrome?

[Quintin03]

Originally Posted by Purist

If they even try to castrate Dijon, I hope Arnoux, and Villeneuve risen from the grave, come after Tilke.

The sections that were deforested for the original extension haven't had time to grow so those would be the first to be used. Only the penultimate turn or the Parabolique would be lost

[Purist]

If you haven't seen the clip, there is some VERY famous footage from the French GP at Dijon in 1979. Please, watch it, and you'll understand my comment.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by Purist

If you haven't seen the clip, there is some VERY famous footage from the French GP at Dijon in 1979. Please, watch it, and you'll understand my comment.

Here is a link to the last laps of that race
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1p25JO9Q4w

[Quintin03]

Originally Posted by Purist

If you haven't seen the clip, there is some VERY famous footage from the French GP at Dijon in 1979. Please, watch it, and you'll understand my comment.

They never did a move at Combe so that could still Happen. Not that it is likely but it could.

[Wims]

Dijon is not a very good circuit, it would be totally impossible to overtake in a modern F1 car. It doesnt have a wide enough variety of corners either. It does have excellent elevation changes tho. Just because somebody had a couple of good laps there 30 years ago doesnt really mean that the circuit is sacred and should be left to rot in the state it was back then

[Purist]

Wims, just FYI, those were true ground-effects cars. If they could pass at that track, then there is NO EXCUSE for the current crop not to be able to.

So what if Dijon doesn't have every type of corner! It all flows and fits together, which is actually a more telling measure in my book than all these long straights into hairpins business. Before the remodel at Spa for 2007, there really was no obvious overtaking point (obvious by the "modern" definition). The start/finish "straight" wasn't that long, and yet that track sees/saw as much overtaking, if not more, than any other on the F1 calendar. Monza saw its best racing when I was all high-speed straights with a few fast corners thrown in (Lemos were faster corners then than now); the chicanes actually fouled up so much of the overtaking because they broke up the slipstreaming nature of that track.

The Tilke tracks that rate the highest have better racing, but also, and rather tellingly, are generally considered to have the best overall flow to them: Istanbul and Sepang. I don't think that's at all a coincidence.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I think the key thing about Dijon was the fact many of the sweeping corners were borderline flat out (borderline being the key word). A driver could take multiple lines through the majority of the bends, whereas our modern day Tilke tracks are pretty stop/start affairs. Dijon was not, but that doesn't mean it's difficult to overtake. The varied lines encourage different approaches and lead to different exit speeds, which allow overtakes regardless of the current technical regs of the modern day F1 car.

I was watching an F3 Euro race there last season (on TV, not live) and there was plenty of action! If they could extend the run-offs, and perhaps design an extension to the current track, I see no reason why it couldn't be utilised and enjoyed... other than the obvious FIA reasons, of course

Selby

[Wims]

Originally Posted by Purist

Wims, just FYI, those were true ground-effects cars. If they could pass at that track, then there is NO EXCUSE for the current crop not to be able to....

Ground effect cars can run much closer to each other than non ground effect cars, since the downforce generated by the undertray is nowhere near as sensitive to turbulence as normal wing-generated downforce. Modern F1 cars would not be able to utilize all those lines the same way because of all the dirty air

[Purist]

The downforce can be more stable, except when you hit a bump and break the ground-effect because you disturbed the side skirts. Also, the rear wings on those cars, at least some of them, were more extensive than what we have now. Did you notice the undertray-extractor, lower element of the wing on the back of Arnoux's Renault?

That's kind of a moot point though anyway, because the current F1 cars will more easily take the turns at Dijon flat-out than their 1979 counterparts, in which case, overtaking at that track as it is still shouldn't be a problem.