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Old 10 Apr 2018, 14:11 (Ref:3814667)   #31
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Originally Posted by Moneyseeker View Post
Sounds like it might need a 'B spec car' could be on the horizon by the British GP or they face the real prospect of no points. They were still miles out of the points in Bahrain with 3 cars retiring ahead of them!

B Spec car...no doubt they have already shifted development to 2019.

cynical joke aside, its still early season but even FI looks to having issues as well.

how much of their and Williams problems are down to the customer Merc engine?
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Old 10 Apr 2018, 14:45 (Ref:3814680)   #32
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As someone who has always respected Williams, it pains me to say this, but there is nothing inevitable about their recovering. Maybe they’re just gradually going the way of Tyrrell, Lotus or Brabham - a slip down the competitive order into oblivion.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 00:37 (Ref:3814766)   #33
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[QUOTE=chillibowl;3814667]B Spec car...no doubt they have already shifted development to 2019.

cynical joke aside, its still early season but even FI looks to having issues as well.

how much of their and Williams problems are down to the customer Merc engine?[/QUOTE]

I was wondering what was going on with the Merc customer engines too, they are meant to be identical specs and mapping to the works engines, yet they don't seem to perform nearly as well.

What is the FIA doing to police engine parity between works and customer spec engines?

If Merc are caught cheating on this one, given the $100 million dollar fine that McLaren were given, a billion dollars would seem to be in the ballpark.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 00:43 (Ref:3814769)   #34
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
B Spec car...no doubt they have already shifted development to 2019.

cynical joke aside, its still early season but even FI looks to having issues as well.

how much of their and Williams problems are down to the customer Merc engine?
Massa was complaining last year that they were not updating the car!
Probably what lead to them getting rid of Massa.

Is the current car a real update from the 2017 car?
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 05:35 (Ref:3814795)   #35
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post

I was wondering what was going on with the Merc customer engines too, they are meant to be identical specs and mapping to the works engines, yet they don't seem to perform nearly as well.

What is the FIA doing to police engine parity between works and customer spec engines
Engine and software may be physically identical as per the new rules but if it’s Merc power staff who are monitoring and responsible for the mapping and if they are only allowed certain maps....
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 06:56 (Ref:3814803)   #36
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Gary Anderson seems to think it is chassis /aero not engine related particularly. And Williams have added more cooling, so if there are any engine performance issues, that might be temperature related.

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Old 11 Apr 2018, 08:14 (Ref:3814813)   #37
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Engine and software may be physically identical as per the new rules but if it’s Merc power staff who are monitoring and responsible for the mapping and if they are only allowed certain maps....
I understood that the engine manufacturers had to make the identical maps they were using to the customers, the power unit and its software had to be identical in every way. i.e. The customers should have access to "party mode", and any other mode that is available to the works team.

Without the correct works maps the PU is pretty well useless.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 08:20 (Ref:3814814)   #38
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They have to make sure it is all there but the key is the staff have to activate, and the only people allowed to touch it are Merc staff as part of the supply contract, and they report to Merc not the host team.

Think - you don’t now, and have never seen a customer team finding 0.5s in Q. In fact it happened once and the person left his job shortly after
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 08:37 (Ref:3814816)   #39
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But surely the mapping cannot be the same for the customer teams? The works team uses specially (and uniquely) developed Petronas fuel, Williams use Petrobras fuel. The engines will have to be mapped specifically to the fuel, (some of) the power advantage could come from this.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 08:48 (Ref:3814818)   #40
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Williams use petronas
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 10:10 (Ref:3814835)   #41
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to walk in a slow, relaxed manner, especially for pleasure

Not sure anyone is getting pleasure out of this. Except maybe Sauber.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 10:29 (Ref:3814840)   #42
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Williams use petronas
Correct. So does Force India. Exactly the same Petronas fuel and lubricants as the Mercedes AMG team.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 11:00 (Ref:3814843)   #43
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Correct. So does Force India. Exactly the same Petronas fuel and lubricants as the Mercedes AMG team.
Although Force India and Williams both use Petronas Primax fuel alongside Mercedes, Force India changed to Ravenol lubricants at the start of this season.

Williams doesn't state which lubricant it uses, although I suspect that they also use Petronas.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 11:14 (Ref:3814848)   #44
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Just because you have a presser and some stickers that doesn’t always rule what is actually in the car and any bottles in the box...
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Old 14 Apr 2018, 03:58 (Ref:3815345)   #45
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Not sure what else could have been expected.

They have drivers with close to zero set up ability at this level, and a questionable tech director leading.
It was pretty annoying listening to Anthony Davidson try to defend Williams' decisions to hire Stroll and Sirotkin during commentary of first practice yesterday.
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