What should I do? - Page 3

Mr.Jingles · 27 Feb 2008, 12:21 (Ref:2139157)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidewaysFeltham

I'm beginning to believe this thread is either a wind up; or the OP is so intransigent, responding is a total waste of good intent and time!

Is that even a word?

I'll get my coat....

Jamesd · 27 Feb 2008, 12:39 (Ref:2139167)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

Learn to love learning, and learn to love engineering. And hardwork. And grafting. And putting in the hours. And working for not a lot of money. And reading. And communication.

Thanks will take these on board

Anybody else

James

AU N EGL · 27 Feb 2008, 13:27 (Ref:2139229)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesd

Hi

Ok, so everybody is saying motorsport is not for me, but i want to make it for me, so how could I improve myself to make sure I do get the job i want.

james

Go buy or find an old motorcycle or old car, that does not work, and make it RUN. Pull that car or motocyle apart yourself, get to know and be intimate with every little part of that machine. Put it back together, make it work.

Get your hands dirty and greasy ON YOUR OWN.

When your not in class you need to be in a garage taking cars, motorcycles, lawnmowers or any thing mechanical apart and putting, making it work, and putting it back together again.

If you dont have a garage, find one to use. If you dont have an old motorcycle or car, find one. Great mechanics are INNOVATIVE. They make things happen.

Not all happy hours are spent in a pub with mates, many of us make happy hour in the garage. My favorite chair is a piece of old cardboard I sit on working on my car, just like in the TV commercials.

As we say here in the Southern USA, Get it done.

Jamesd · 27 Feb 2008, 14:03 (Ref:2139268)

Hi

My dad wont let me get a car or anthing like that to do up, i would be able to do a mini moto or somthing small like that, any ideas

would that be ok?

James

tristancliffe · 27 Feb 2008, 14:20 (Ref:2139286)

If if has wheels, an engine and it doesn't work, then yes that's fine. Don't worry about anything other than learning how to make things work.

If something in your house breaks, be it a playstation controller, a picture frame or a cup then rather than just buying another, try and fix the broken thing so that it works as well (if not better

) than it did before. Then you can buy a new one if you still want to.

Practice. Get those skills a cookin'

wills · 27 Feb 2008, 15:03 (Ref:2139313)

Quote:

If you can't or don't want to go to university, then I'm afraid you'd better quit your course now and accept a career further down the ladder - the serious motorsport teams will not want someone who doesn't feel like finding the answers to the problems.

I hate this sort of mentality, you have to go to uni or else set your sights lower. Alot of people these days are going to uni so a degree in this day and age isn't as valued as around 10 years ago, not to mention the legions of foreign students with much higher maths background that could easily fill your place.

tristancliffe · 27 Feb 2008, 15:09 (Ref:2139317)

It's not about the degree, it's about the willingness. Other than a degree course there aren't many places that will actively teach you materials engineering, structural engineering, fluid mechanics, the maths behind it etc. In fact because the degree is so common it's more important than ever - everyone will soon have one, and who would you give a job to on your race team?

1. The drop out who doesn't like learning or engineering
2. The post-graduate student who has sprinted his home-finished/modified car, and refused to go to bed until they've spent at least 4 hours of their own time taking a diff to pieces because the gaskets look a bit grubby.

Jamesd · 27 Feb 2008, 15:35 (Ref:2139337)

Hi

Well at the moment my mum has said no to a mini moto or anything like that, as i will make a mess and we dont really have a lot of room.

James

wills · 27 Feb 2008, 15:36 (Ref:2139338)

And whats wrong with vocational courses?

littlefarny · 27 Feb 2008, 15:39 (Ref:2139340)

Please people though, do not tar all motorsport courses with the same brush.
Some are pretty crap at poor universities, whereas some are essentially Mechanical Engineering honours degrees, but instead of planes and trains in the examples, it's racing cars.

If your only reason for not going to Uni is because you know people that are in debt, then perhaps it might not be for you, and to be fair, I hope it's not.
There would then be no rhyme or reason to me spending 5/6 years of my life, and getting around £45,000 in debt if someone could walk into the jobs that I want to be occupying with a 1 year college course.

I might not be the most hands on person in the world, but am deffinately dedicated to the theory and data side, and hopefully this will open the doors to me learning my practical craft as well - and I think that this is the only way round this works. Not having any technical knowledge, but just being able to use a torque-wrench will not get you into the upper echelons these days.

AU N EGL · 27 Feb 2008, 16:24 (Ref:2139373)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

If if has wheels, an engine and it doesn't work, then yes that's fine. Don't worry about anything other than learning how to make things work.

If something in your house breaks, be it a playstation controller, a picture frame or a cup then rather than just buying another, try and fix the broken thing so that it works as well (if not better

) than it did before. Then you can buy a new one if you still want to.

Practice. Get those skills a cookin'

I agree here. Get those hands greasy and get cookin'

Heck some mechanics just take things apart no matter how good it is running, JUST TO SEE how it works.

My first engine I pulled apart had a cracked block, but I leaned alot just by taking it apart and putting it back to gether, several times. That was fun.

SidewaysFeltham · 27 Feb 2008, 16:52 (Ref:2139391)

This thread is frankly, becoming bloody silly!

Now having been for my sins, quite involved in higher education, a few years ago, I do know that weak academics have conned government into allowing them to create a whole raft of maniac degrees!

No doubt the next one will be " Learning to Become Prime Minister"!

One becomes involved in real motorsport by a combination of qualification, knowledge, skill, lots of hard work, personal sacrifice and finally, determination: plus a huge slice of luck!

And despite the reality that today, there are far more professional outfits, championships, professional classes and above all, far more money, there is, equally, far more competition for available jobs.

Motorsport at a commercial level is intensely professional and significantly well managed: as I said before, it's a multi-million £ business; not a game for the idle rich as it was through the 1920s and 1930s.

The thread might as well have said, "I want to become a Space Shuttle Pilot": don't want to go into the Air Force: I don't like uniforms..

Don't want to do a PPL; I can't stand small planes.

Etc.

Dream on.

Jamesd · 27 Feb 2008, 16:56 (Ref:2139394)

Hi

I am sorry, but that last post did not make much sense to me, why are you going about planes and the prime minister and why has this thread become silly.

James

Jamesd · 27 Feb 2008, 17:01 (Ref:2139396)

Hi

there is no way I am allowed to fdo a car or mini moto at home, my dad said i cant, as i wont actually put my mind to it.

So that is out of the question

james

tristancliffe · 27 Feb 2008, 17:22 (Ref:2139408)

He obviously knows you quite well, so if he says you won't put your mind to it then you probably won't. And without being able to put your mind to a project (which means less socialising, less time on computers, less time playing etc) then motorsport isn't really for you, in an capacity. Sorry to be a bummer about it.

Can you and your friends get a car to strip, and each of you does one part (e.g. engine, suspension, drivetrain, trim, electrics), and each get their bit working independantly, and put it back together again together (each person doing their bit). That'll teach you an area of cars (do several, and each time do a different section), AND teamwork, as well as project management (don't put engine in until, say, electrics are in).

And you don't have to have your dad say yes, because you can keep it in a friends garage.

tristancliffe · 27 Feb 2008, 17:27 (Ref:2139409)

This thread is silly because we are trying to help you, but your are not helping us help you.

You want to be in motorsport despite not liking engineering or mechanics. Whilst, as he said, is like wanting to be a Space Shuttle pilot but not liking heights. You CANNOT be a "Number One Mechanic" in ANY motorsports team (professional, semi-professional or club) without knowing cars inside out, being able to fix them YOURSELF, enjoying it, and not minding when you have to do a 54 hour shift to get a car ready in time knowing full well you'll only get paid for the 9 - 6 part.

We're not convinced you know what motorsport is all about. And most of us aren't professional race team engineers, but would love to be. It's not that easy to fall into, especially if you don't actually like the work.

Jamesd · 27 Feb 2008, 17:28 (Ref:2139413)

Hi

The only reason he wont let me do it as I have never really had a project before, and we dont have any room anyway.

I do want to do Motorsport, so can yuo stop saying it, i just want to improve myself so i can get somehwere in motorsport.

Also my mates where I live dont like motorsport, and all my college mates are miles away, one form up noth (lives in college and the rest are over 40miles away, as i have to do a 1hour bus jounery to get to college each day, i ahve already asked college and they said we can not do our own project as we wanted to do a track day car for combe as my mates has his racing car licsence. but they said no.

James

Jamesd · 27 Feb 2008, 17:30 (Ref:2139416)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

This thread is silly because we are trying to help you, but your are not helping us help you.

You want to be in motorsport despite not liking engineering or mechanics. Whilst, as he said, is like wanting to be a Space Shuttle pilot but not liking heights. You CANNOT be a "Number One Mechanic" in ANY motorsports team (professional, semi-professional or club) without knowing cars inside out, being able to fix them YOURSELF, enjoying it, and not minding when you have to do a 54 hour shift to get a car ready in time knowing full well you'll only get paid for the 9 - 6 part.

We're not convinced you know what motorsport is all about. And most of us aren't professional race team engineers, but would love to be. It's not that easy to fall into, especially if you don't actually like the work.

Hi
I want to be helped, also i am not to intrested in engineering but more intrested in how cars go tohether that is mechanic. I dont mind about the hours, last year i was doing 5:30am at a meeting to 9:30pm just to race.

James

littlefarny · 27 Feb 2008, 17:34 (Ref:2139419)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesd

Hi
I want to be helped, also i am not to intrested in engineering but more intrested in how cars go tohether that is mechanic. I dont mind about the hours, last year i was doing 5:30am at a meeting to 9:30pm just to race.

James

Well, that pretty much means you like engineering, and to understand how cars go together, it would be wise to know the theory behind it as well so you don't do something stupid.

Jamesd · 27 Feb 2008, 17:37 (Ref:2139428)

I must be worng then, but i thought mechanics was how the car goes togther and engineering is how the car itself work, internal rations also design and the materials stuff.

So i do think i want to work on the car, not just sit behind a desk doing designing on the car all day long.

James

littlefarny · 27 Feb 2008, 17:41 (Ref:2139431)

I'm going in to be an engineer, and definately do not want to be behind a desk designing all day. Engineering is the practical application of science to commerce or industry, so fitting a car together is engineering, so you will need an engineering background (whether theoretical or a lot of practical experience) to make sure you're doing it properly.

You can't say you like building things, making them work, and not liking engineering.

tristancliffe · 27 Feb 2008, 17:52 (Ref:2139442)

To be a race mechanic you have to know how to do the 'behind a desk on a drawing board' stuff as well as being able to change the oil and filter in seconds, as well as working out to repair a load bearing composite structure using the tools and equipment you happen to have in a safe, controlled way.

It's not just being a grease monkey and knowing the difference between 6mm threads and 8mm threads.

Edit: 6pm. I'm off to do another three or fours hours on the car ready for the first test of the year. Got a seat, a tracking system and a bumps steer gauge to finish making, a car to level up on a water system (easy until it leaks, dammit!), and a cooling system to test. Woot!!!

AU N EGL · 27 Feb 2008, 17:59 (Ref:2139446)

Jimmy boy, forget what your instructor says about a group project, foget what your father says, IF YOU WANT TO DO IT, WELL GOSH DARN IT ( see mods I am being nice) DO IT end of story

GO FIND a garage or old barn you can use.
GO FIND a old car or motor bike to take apart and rebuild.
WORK ON weekends or LATE into the night AFTER your studies are done.

If you keep taking "NO" from anyone you WILL NEVER get anywere in life.

NEVER LISTEN too ppl Especilly family who tell you "NO", or "IT CANT BE DONE." Just say "thank you" or smile back at them and 'GET IT DONE.'

ps most engineers I know spend 40 hours a week at a computer design and fricken meetings and another 40 hours a week in the shop taking things apart and putting things back together and Most mechanics I know work 40-50 hours a week in shop then go home and work another 20-30 hours on THEIR own race cars. and WEEKENDS are for racing....

Chris Y · 27 Feb 2008, 18:23 (Ref:2139464)

What he said ^^^

If you want to improve yourself James, the first thing to do is stop saying "can't". If your dad says you can't do something at home, do it elsewhere! It's not our job to think for you - you know your own circumstances and what you can do - now you need to figure out a way to get it done.

Go find a scrapyard somewhere. Ask if you can take something apart. Tell them it's for a college project. If you're nice to them (offer to make the tea) they may even lend you their tools.

Al Weyman · 27 Feb 2008, 20:42 (Ref:2139586)

Also sit down and read a couple of Haynes manuals. I got a job once at a company that became the mighty MFI but in those days they bought ex military vehicles renovated them and sold them on. It was great as there were hundreds of vehicles of all varities in the yard, some for spares some for renovation so if you messed something up you just went out in the yard and pulled another one off a scrapper. A very steep learning curve. I was also fortunate that a guy there took me under his wing and taught me how to gas and arc weld and I recon I learnt more in a year at that place (and had great fun, ever road tested a half track or a scout car over a disused railway track, thats fun) than a 4th year uni student would ever learn. I then got a job at a Ford main dealer and knew way more than the guys who had done all the courses as they never rebuilt engines or gearboxes something I had been doing for the last year including V8's and trucks. I then applied for a job with a motor racing outfit that specialised in modifing Imps and building GT cars so what did I do before the interview? I bought a Haynes manual on the Imp and studied it from cover to cover (never worked on Imps at that time) and I became very well versed in the model (BTW I got the job and great fun that was as well for a while till I decided i wanted to be self employed and realised motorsport was a very overated job anyhow).

Today I run my own Signs and Graphics shop, very small but OK it pays for my racing. Now I will tell you I get CV's sent to me all the time from ex graduates seeking employment in the graphics industry and maybe I am old school but I am not interested as they are not what I would be looking for , they have no hands on and probably far too high expectations for a wage, many end up out of the industry. If I want to employ someone ALL I am interested in is what they can do, the rest means Jack Sh**e and trust me I am not alone and you can kid yourselves all you like this is a fact. You can have all the degrees in the world but be blessed with two left hands or cannot eyeball things or have no intutive designs skills, thats no good to me as we are hands on here and it cannot be taught (well some of it can if there is a spark and interest to work on) you either have it or you don't.

Sadly I personaly think many of these degrees and all these silly ones like motorsport degrees are just one big government con to get employment figures right. I have told you this before James in a PM and I will tell you again the same as the governer at one of the airplane maintenance companies at Elstree Airport (Simpsons Aeroservices, they looked after Graham Hills aircraft) once told me when at about your age I drove up there on me motorbie (I pulled that apart a few times) seeking employment as I loved aircraft before motorsport, 'Go and get yourself a job in a garage son and just learn how to use the tools then come and see me in a years time' he told me which is how I ended up at the MFI company working in the ex-forces stuff!

I think I understand what you are getting at by your confusion over the word 'mechanic' and 'engineer' and you possibly have a point. I think you are suggesting the mechanic is the guy who maintains and fixes the 'engineer' is the guy who designs the thing in the first place but in this day and age of flowered up job titles 'Mechanic' and 'Engineer' are probably confused as it sounds cooler to call yourself an engineer when all you may be is changing exhausts at KwikFit.