What do you think Ferrari will do to avoid falling too far behind?

[Marlboro man]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Only illegal after some team complained though.

That seems logical, when someting is illegal, teams complain.

Ferrari can complain until they drop dead, if there was nothing wrong like Michelin said, why did they use other tyres the next race?

[Marlboro man]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

We do not need to go over old ground, or pedal the same one-sided view point. It will only destroy the thread.

Sorry, I didn't read your reply yet.

[Hugh Jarce]

I think they'll go for the 2005 once back in Europe - it will be a challenger in the top 8 and they'll blame the rest on tyres.

In my view the fact is that some dedicated and competent teams are finally catching the now 'Trotting Horse'. It had to happen at some point and I think this year is the turning point.

What's interesting is that in previous seasons I'd have put money on that being Ron Dennis and his leather jackets and aluminum bogs seats, but it appears that it's the dedicated car manufacturers that are coming through fastest.

Maybe that shouldn't be such a surprise!

Now the Rubens thing is fascinating - what will they do if that trend continues. Perhaps continue give him the softer tyres each race!

[Testure]

There was a quote (Ross Brawn?) a couple of days ago that they were predicting the F2005 to be between 0.5 and 1.0 seconds faster per lap. Not sure if that's going to be enough if Renault, etc. have another month of development time before that car actually races.

Ferrari have dug themselves a bit of a hole tyre-wise. The reason teams like McLaren left Bridgestone was that they felt (probably correctly!) that Bridgestone were spending a disproportionate amount of time working with Ferrari. The direct result of that is that Michelin now have far more man-power available to them to test their rubber. We've also all read various stories/opinions that Michelin have been making better tyres (in themselves) than their rivals for a couple of seasons now. I recall an interview with Gary Anderson last year discussing the testing methodologies of the two companies and it really seemed that Michelin have the better of Bridgestone.

Anyway. If the biggest problem that Ferrari have is tyres, then they're going to have difficulty fixing that problem. Aero, etc. they can work on, but tyres need more than one team.

[Marlboro man]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jarce

Now the Rubens thing is fascinating - what will they do if that trend continues. Perhaps continue give him the softer tyres each race!

In Melbourne Schumacher was done when it started to rain in quali.
In Malaysia Schumacher was faster in the first quali and a little bit slower in second quali with more fuel.

In the race Rubens ****ed up his tyres and payed the price later.

I don't see the point where Rubens starts to be faster then Michael, do you?

[Hugh Jarce]

No frankly Marlboro man I don't - but then from all accounts neither does Ferrari.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

They'll debut the new car in Bahrain, I believe.

I'm not so sure. Martin did say during the race that "a Ferrari person" had told him it wouldn't be debuted in Bahrain, but then, that doesn't mean anything!

Originally Posted by knowlesy

It would be a shame for Michael if Ferrari have such a bad season that he decides to jack it in.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it

[Andrew2001]

Hahaha, Im loving Ferraris current situation. but what will they do now? What part of the regs will they have changed? What componentry on that Renault will be made illegal? To what end will Todt go to swing the balance back there way? Compulsory concrete compound tyres for all Michelins?

key moments in the '00 championship and '03 championship, were, with two races to go and an 8 point advantage, FIA issuing no team orders and any hint of one driver helping his team mate would be banned or disqualified, as we knew DC was going tobe full time mobile Chicane for Mika just as MS was for Irvine in '99 at Malaysia, and the other key moment is Ferrari's frantic situation at the end of '03, when they were being lapped by everything, the Michelin fronts were made illegal following a rule change after a Ferrari protest. I've got more, but that highlights my point hehe.

GO CHUMP-MACHER!!

[Lotusonpole]

Hmmmm....
probably threaten to quit F1 unless the rules are changed again.......

Joke....only a joke Ferrari fans....

Cheers
Peter

[f1_carzy]

How are Ferrai can go from literally nought to glory in less than six months? Now doubt is a serious point to consider here. Are we all being sold a dummy? It's like this. Ferrari have dominated Formula One for some years now - much longer than any other team ever have. They obviously have found some magic in their development and of course with Michael Schumacher have had a combination of car and driver that is relentless in its hunger for more and more success.

While Ferrari have gone on and made billions over the last six years or so, Formula One has gotten the raw end of the stick. What turned out to be a great success story in 2000, when Michael Schumacher won his first driver's title, has turned into a horror story for the fans, the sponsors and of course the other teams.

In 2003, the FIA brought in a series of rule changes that were supposed to challenge Ferrari. It certainly worked but Ferrari had to fight hard to win that year but they learnt the lesson well and in 2004, obliterated the competition. Besides, the changes weren't helping the F1 teams in their pursuit of the prancing horses.

Just before the 2005 season started, the FIA signed up with Ferrari to extend the Concorde agreement much to the pleasure of Formula One's supremo - Bernie Ecclestone. By getting Ferrari to commit to Formula One, he had won the confidence of the best team in the world.

Now, here is the theory that seems to be cropping up in everyone's minds...did Bernie Ecclestone actually pay Ferrari that 'undisclosed' (It is supposedly over US$ 500 million) sum of money to slow down?!! It is not an impossible theory if you look at the ramifications it would have on the future of Formula One. So, let's just look at what were to happen if Ferrari slowed down.

As the season of 2005 progresses, Ferrari will start to improve but this time around, their pace just may be short of pulling the championship together. In the end, Michael Schumacher might just lose the crown to a new hero like Fernando Alonso in a battle that will probably go all the way down the last race in Shanghai. In the process, there will be other teams and drivers that will win races. 2005 will probably produce the most race winners in recent F1 history thus giving fans and audiences a variety of drivers to rue for in the future.

I expect at least ten winners this year and Michael will of course still lead in race victories but it perhaps wont be enough for him to secure his 8th World title. So, Ferrari lose a close battle in 2005 and the audiences across the world realise that Ferrari can indeed lose.

Enter 2006 and Ferrari are back to the top of their game because they will pull out all the stops on their performance. At the end of 2006, Michael Schumacher will certainly win his eighth title in a close battle with some of the new heroes of Formula One and end his contract with Ferrari on a winning note. Michael Schumacher retains his God-like status and is remembered as the best Formula One driver ever and not for having killed Formula One with his supremacy.

Once he is out of the way, the Formula One world goes back to normal.

Just read this off a Indian newspaper. Can't expect to be true, but is an interesting scenario
http://headlines.sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13698006&headline=All's~not~well~at~Maranello,~or~is~it?

[raul_iulian]

Can anyone tell me what engine are Sauber using now?
The 2004 that is used by F2004M or the new 2005?
.........

[pole2pole]

We all know that ferrari have brought a new level as far as strategy is concerned but this whole strategy surrounding them and bridgestone has really back fired on them big time. They only have themselves to blame. How are they going to get out of this one? That's what concerns me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a sudden change to the regulations in order to aid ferrari and pull them back up the grid.

[pole2pole]

Just a thought, imagine if the brigdestones where the better tyre by the same margin that michelin have at the moment. This whole ferrari issue would be so different. They would have walked the first two races and we would be thinking my god if thetas what the 04 car can do what can the 05 car do

[garcon]

Originally Posted by pole2pole

... How are they going to get out of this one? That's what concerns me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a sudden change to the regulations in order to aid ferrari and pull them back up the grid.

There's always room for a new conspiracy...

Originally Posted by pole2pole

Just a thought, imagine if the brigdestones where the better tyre by the same margin that michelin have at the moment. This whole ferrari issue would be so different. They would have walked the first two races and we would be thinking my god if thetas what the 04 car can do what can the 05 car do

You mean a bit like 2004?

[Andrew2001]

Originally Posted by Marlboro man

That seems logical, when someting is illegal, teams complain.

Ferrari can complain until they drop dead, if there was nothing wrong like Michelin said, why did they use other tyres the next race?

Marlboro Man don't be so silly. The regulation regarding the dimensions of the front tyres were changed to therefore make the then current Michelin Illegal. They had very cleverly produced a front tyre that worked perfectly with the Renault chassis, the McLaren chassis, the Williams chassis and even the Toyota chassis. Teh tyre was wider and squarer than the Bridgestone, and less aerodynamic, but there was much more mechanical grip available to it, and thus, as has been proved in many situations in history, raw grunt, or raw grip, can over come the problems of aerodynamics.

[Andrew2001]

Originally Posted by pole2pole

We all know that ferrari have brought a new level as far as strategy is concerned but this whole strategy surrounding them and bridgestone has really back fired on them big time. They only have themselves to blame. How are they going to get out of this one? That's what concerns me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a sudden change to the regulations in order to aid ferrari and pull them back up the grid.

Yeah exactly.
When Ferrari go away to test this week, they know that for every two laps that each of their two test drivers complete of Fiorano, there is 16 laps being completed by their rival Michelin, so no matter what they do, they don't have the capacity to explore grey areas of tyre and chassis performance with just two cars. Michelin have been able to send their development in all directions, and consistantly bring back results of varied quantities meaning they have far more fact.
The only reason why Ferrari have still managed to come through and win in the last couple of years, is because of the advantage the Michelin teams enjoyed in 2003, was neutralised by a hasty Ferrari protest. That title was going Kimi or Juan's way, not Michaels. But anyway, thats pointless talk now, what we all want to know now is, what kind of protest will Ferrari lodge in what area of the regs or in a particular area of the Michelin alliance to bring themselves back into contention. there is absolutely no way they can bring it back themselves, there is too much information, too much speed, and just share numbers of faster cars blocking them from the podium positions.

Go Kimi! Go Juan! Go Nick!

[Andrew2001]

Originally Posted by f1_carzy

How are Ferrai can go from literally nought to glory in less than six months? Now doubt is a serious point to consider here. Are we all being sold a dummy? It's like this. Ferrari have dominated Formula One for some years now - much longer than any other team ever have. They obviously have found some magic in their development and of course with Michael Schumacher have had a combination of car and driver that is relentless in its hunger for more and more success.

While Ferrari have gone on and made billions over the last six years or so, Formula One has gotten the raw end of the stick. What turned out to be a great success story in 2000, when Michael Schumacher won his first driver's title, has turned into a horror story for the fans, the sponsors and of course the other teams.

In 2003, the FIA brought in a series of rule changes that were supposed to challenge Ferrari. It certainly worked but Ferrari had to fight hard to win that year but they learnt the lesson well and in 2004, obliterated the competition. Besides, the changes weren't helping the F1 teams in their pursuit of the prancing horses.

Just before the 2005 season started, the FIA signed up with Ferrari to extend the Concorde agreement much to the pleasure of Formula One's supremo - Bernie Ecclestone. By getting Ferrari to commit to Formula One, he had won the confidence of the best team in the world.

Now, here is the theory that seems to be cropping up in everyone's minds...did Bernie Ecclestone actually pay Ferrari that 'undisclosed' (It is supposedly over US$ 500 million) sum of money to slow down?!! It is not an impossible theory if you look at the ramifications it would have on the future of Formula One. So, let's just look at what were to happen if Ferrari slowed down.

As the season of 2005 progresses, Ferrari will start to improve but this time around, their pace just may be short of pulling the championship together. In the end, Michael Schumacher might just lose the crown to a new hero like Fernando Alonso in a battle that will probably go all the way down the last race in Shanghai. In the process, there will be other teams and drivers that will win races. 2005 will probably produce the most race winners in recent F1 history thus giving fans and audiences a variety of drivers to rue for in the future.

I expect at least ten winners this year and Michael will of course still lead in race victories but it perhaps wont be enough for him to secure his 8th World title. So, Ferrari lose a close battle in 2005 and the audiences across the world realise that Ferrari can indeed lose.

Enter 2006 and Ferrari are back to the top of their game because they will pull out all the stops on their performance. At the end of 2006, Michael Schumacher will certainly win his eighth title in a close battle with some of the new heroes of Formula One and end his contract with Ferrari on a winning note. Michael Schumacher retains his God-like status and is remembered as the best Formula One driver ever and not for having killed Formula One with his supremacy.

Once he is out of the way, the Formula One world goes back to normal.

Just read this off a Indian newspaper. Can't expect to be true, but is an interesting scenario
http://headlines.sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13698006&headline=All's~not~well~at~Maranello,~or~is~it?

Very interesting theory, and one worth pondering. But my view is still that This story of Bridgestone's lack of information has caught them out yet again, and thus tied down the true potential of that Ferrari.

[Hugh Jarce]

Does the fact that it was originally posted by F1 'Carzy' give any indications about the nature of this theory.

[Adam43]

I have a theory. It is a bit out on a limb, a bit crazy, radical maybe. Here it is, work in progress and it only touches the surface:

Ferrari aren't doing as well at the moment because their car isn't as quick as some other teams.

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Well at least this year isn't going to turn out as bad as 1980 for Ferrari...


As far as I can see, at the moment the Ferrari car/tyre package isn't as good as other team's car/tyre packages.

They'll bring out the F2005 and finish regulaly on the podium, possibly win. Then once they develop the tyres (which they will do) they'll be back to winning ways, but in no way dominating.


I am a Ferrari fan and I'm still backing them for the title, but only by a slither.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I have a theory. It is a bit out on a limb, a bit crazy, radical maybe. Here it is, work in progress and it only touches the surface:

Ferrari aren't doing as well at the moment because their car isn't as quick as some other teams.

I think you may have something there.

My crystal ball says Ferrari will still stuggle in Bahrain but will be back at full speed by the Nurburgring.

[f1_carzy]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jarce

Does the fact that it was originally posted by F1 'Carzy' give any indications about the nature of this theory.

Sorry, I could not understand what you are trying to say! Anyways, I read it here, found it unique, so posted it (I had given the link alongwith the post too)
http://headlines.sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13698006&headline=All's~not~well~at~Maranello,~or~is~it?

I am a Ferrari fan too...and would not want to see Ferrari being browbeaten; hope they and Bridgestone pull their act together.

I agree to Adam's theory and would add:
Ferrari aren't doing as well at the moment because their car and tyres aren't as quick as some other teams

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Ferrari aren't doing as well at the moment because their car isn't as quick as some other teams.

What a profound and far reaching statement that is Adam.

Here's another one:BAR aren't doing so well because their engines keep blowing up.

You could make some others up for some of the other teams and drivers too,what fun.(no sarcasm intended Adam )

[chillibowl]

i too have a theory,
building on the comaparitive advantage which formally fascist nations have in building really fast vehicles, ferrari will skip the introduction of the f2005 and go to straight to the f2006 which will infact be some sort of tank so MS can finally have a drive that he can litterly drive everyone of the road with. apperently MS and peter sauber were overheard talking and MS was saying that he was still upset that he didn't finish of villeneuve back in 97 and his chance on correcting that mistake was soon to be at hand.
personally i cant wait.

[Knowlesy]

I find that unlikely.