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Old 23 Apr 2017, 00:23 (Ref:3728473)   #1
SJA
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VALE: Supercars

... and perhaps motorsport as a whole.

Yesterday I watched yet another artificial result created at the hands of a nonsensical bureaucracy. They should change the name of the series to the Virgin Australia Overly Regulated, No Longer Relevant, Rule Book Bureaucracy Championship.

I'm sure I'm not alone here in saying I've had enough. (*Waits for the 'don't let the door hit you on the way out' brigade...*)

A driver crosses a painted line, gains nothing, gets race ruined by arbitrary and non-fitting-of-the-crime penalties.

In a category within a sport that's already struggling to stay relevant, they have done an incredibly poor job of revising the rules and penalties if their aim this year was to 'let them race'; their changes have done anything but, making the category more out of touch and pushing it more and more into the realms of absurdity. Watching a telecast now comprises of more WTF moments than WOW moments.

The current cars are obsolete, no one wants a Gen2 (Group A) category. So where does that leave us? The motor vehicle itself is quickly becoming a relic, particularly in major cities. Add to this the media polished clan of drivers that say the same thing event-in and event-out (are they clones?), and accessibility of the category being reduced through means of PayTV, and it's no wonder interest in the category and motorsport as a whole seems to be dying.

When the current generation of Supercars fans dies off, there aren't going to be anywhere near as many replacement fans to take their place. Do you know why? Because unlike the days of old where the category was raw, relatable, relevant, accessible and full of colourful characters, even today it is anything but, and it will continue to go in the wrong direction - it's already a run away train at this point.

Then add to this that the "racing" these days is determined by bureaucratic ruling, and well, add it all up. What reason is there for people to give a **** about, what-ever-this-is, anymore?

Maintaining an interest in Supercars has become a very poor use of time. May as well watch something really interesting like a legal court drama series... Oh wait...

So long Virgin Australia Overly Regulated, No Longer Relevant, Rule Book Bureaucracy Championship. Don't worry, I won't let the door hit me on the way out.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 02:52 (Ref:3728484)   #2
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True supporters will always support V8s, despite what CAMS do. Hope the door hits people on their way out, and hits very hard. We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 03:15 (Ref:3728490)   #3
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We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.
What mistakes did CAMS make?
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 03:28 (Ref:3728492)   #4
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The sport seems to have lost it's way in recent times.

Especially when it comes to cleaning up after extraordinary events, and acting in the best interests of the teams and fans.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 03:39 (Ref:3728494)   #5
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True supporters will always support V8s, despite what CAMS do. Hope the door hits people on their way out, and hits very hard. We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.
Hit the nail on the head, but the "Vale" page heading is untrue to say the least to the person who wrote this originally there's always a tommorow fella not all races will end like that

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Old 23 Apr 2017, 03:49 (Ref:3728498)   #6
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True supporters will always support V8s, despite what CAMS do. Hope the door hits people on their way out, and hits very hard. We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.
"True supporters"aren't synchophantic fools.Until a few years ago I used to watch every round on TV and have been to every Supercar race in NSW since the classes inception.In the last few years as I have been able to fill my motor racing TV quota with Foxtel's fantastic coverage of F1 and Moto GP I have found Supercars rubbish in comparison.I miss whole rounds-and remember I have Foxtel-and couldn't care less.If someone as hard core as me is giving up what must be happening with casual fans.
Then we come to yesterday.Outside Albert Park which I attended it was the first time this year I sat down to watch a live Supercar race.It was a farce.Dunlop supplying tyres suited for a regularity rather than a race and judicial decisions based on comments from tv commentators.
Real racing at Austin tomorrow morning and Sochi next weekend.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 04:08 (Ref:3728500)   #7
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I think Supercars is turning into a case of great racing, great cars but appalling race management hopefully cams pull their bloody heads in
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 04:16 (Ref:3728504)   #8
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True supporters will always support V8s, despite what CAMS do. Hope the door hits people on their way out, and hits very hard. We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.
What V8's? The moniker was dropped a year ago, half the V8 engines in the field will disappear over the next 2-years and be completely gone in 4. As far as road cars go, you're talking about near obsolete and inefficient tech.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 04:17 (Ref:3728506)   #9
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Hit the nail on the head, but the "Vale" page heading is untrue to say the least to the person who wrote this originally there's always a tommorow fella not all races will end like that
Most races in the modern era have ended EXACTLY like that (destroyed by a pointless judicial ruling). Where have you been living?
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 04:21 (Ref:3728507)   #10
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Most races in the modern era have ended EXACTLY like that (destroyed by a pointless judicial ruling). Where have you been living?
See my comment below that SJA? It's like what's happening with the NRL currently, there is good competitive racing and good cars which is making for good entertainment but there is a issue with abysmal race management decisions. However I'd say most races haven't, but it's becoming a more common problem which is becoming a nuisance and cams is doing big damage to the public reputation of Supercars.

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Old 23 Apr 2017, 05:35 (Ref:3728537)   #11
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Well race mangement didn't incorrectly tamper with results today which was a positive
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 05:52 (Ref:3728542)   #12
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Most races in the modern era have ended EXACTLY like that (destroyed by a pointless judicial ruling). Where have you been living?
I think many of us as fans, are angry with CAMS due to inconsistency. 155 asked before what CAMS do, don't be consistant that's their issue. Be more consistant and people wouldn't be as annoyed. Would you agree.

On the note of V8s/ Supercars dying out, not really true. If anything we will see F1 die before V8s due to cost and no competition. V8s are so competitive that you can be 23rd and be half a second away. F1 20th is about 2 seconds off. (Not related to SJA comment).
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 06:08 (Ref:3728548)   #13
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I think many of us as fans, are angry with CAMS due to inconsistency. 155 asked before what CAMS do, don't be consistant that's their issue. Be more consistant and people wouldn't be as annoyed. Would you agree.

On the note of V8s/ Supercars dying out, not really true. If anything we will see F1 die before V8s due to cost and no competition. V8s are so competitive that you can be 23rd and be half a second away. F1 20th is about 2 seconds off. (Not related to SJA comment).
No, I wouldn't agree. Consistency is only part of the problem. The larger problem is simply over-regulation. This is meant to be racing, not forensic auditing.

The golden rule should always be: If there was no NET gain, play on! This micro-analysis of lines and other rubbish simply has to stop! But it wont.

In relation to you second comment, when I speak of V8's I speak of the engine configuration of the same name, not the series, which has not had the moniker "V8" in it for quite some time, and the days of the V8 engine remaining in the series appear to be numbered (hence dropping "V8" from the series name in the first place).

F1 and Supercars will both die, but for different reasons. F1 has more mass market and international appeal. How competitive the series' are in relation to one another is irrelevant, but yes F1 will die (not economically sustainable). Supercars will die due to waning public interest for the very reasons I've been mentioning.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 06:28 (Ref:3728553)   #14
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Originally Posted by LD2244
there is good competitive racing and good cars which is making for good entertainment but there is a issue with abysmal race management decisions
Good competition? How many on-track passes for the lead have there been this year?

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155 asked before what CAMS do, don't be consistant that's their issue.
Weren't they consistent in their awarding of penalties yesterday?

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If anything we will see F1 die before V8s due to cost and no competition. V8s are so competitive that you can be 23rd and be half a second away. F1 20th is about 2 seconds off.
Are you kidding?

Gaps front to the rear of grid have absolutely nothing to do with the health of a category. F1 has had huge costs and on average a general lack of competition ever since the inception of the formula in 1950, yet bumbles along year after year and doesn't look like stopping any time soon.

Half a second away and in 23rd is not the result of competitive competition, but more a statement of how controlled and "spec" the current regulations are. With the amount of "control" in the current regulations, anything bigger than that would be a massive failure.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 06:44 (Ref:3728558)   #15
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Good competition? How many on-track passes for the lead have there been this year?



Weren't they consistent in their awarding of penalties yesterday?



Are you kidding?

Gaps front to the rear of grid have absolutely nothing to do with the health of a category. F1 has had huge costs and on average a general lack of competition ever since the inception of the formula in 1950, yet bumbles along year after year and doesn't look like stopping any time soon.

Half a second away and in 23rd is not the result of competitive competition, but more a statement of how controlled and "spec" the current regulations are. With the amount of "control" in the current regulations, anything bigger than that would be a massive failure.
Racing has been good mate it's not just the battle for 1st the racing throughout the whole field has been good and the quality of competition is great the Nissans were going at it and Blanchards pass on Whincup was awesome
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 07:15 (Ref:3728566)   #16
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Good competition? How many on-track passes for the lead have there been this year?

What have you been watching 155. May I say, Adelaide Scotty and SVG, battles for minors, last year Bathurst, Sandown, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Homebush. Clipsal this year was a gap of 1 ten thousands of a second in shoot out. Where else in the world of motorsport do we see that, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE. The racing is the best it has ever been in the last few years, team mate rivalries, talent coming up, Chaz, Scotty M, SVG, Lowndes in the wet. What the hell else do you want to see. Our drivers are up their with the most elite motorsport drivers I think. Not to mention how tough the category is, look at the pedigree Simona has, not a disappointment by far, look how she is going. Another thing, Triple 8 v PRA v Penske v HSV. What else can you ask for, that is going to be an awesome battle to watch. In the last 10 years at least, we have not seen a Bathurst 1000 that has been boring. From 2005 on from what I can remember it has been known for its drama, and awesome races. 2014, track may have been damaged, but look at the end of the race, Chaz v Jamie. 2016, Tander, v Whincup v McLaughlin.

The problem is that people just don't like seeing the top teams there. V8 Supercars by far are not boring, and anyone who says they are, are some of the most delusional people. You wont see someone go flat out through the most wild corner in the country (Adelaide turn 8) on the last lap after 35 laps of being in 60 degree cabins like we did when Whincup and Courtney went at it last year.

This year, 78 laps and SVG and Scotty we still going blow for blow.

I rest my case, V8 Supercars are not boring like F1 when we always see Mercedes at the front in the recent past. NASCAR might be seen as exciting, but for most people they get excited at a crash, we get excited at hard fought racing in V8s.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 07:49 (Ref:3728573)   #17
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Racing has been good mate it's not just the battle for 1st the racing throughout the whole field has been good and the quality of competition is great the Nissans were going at it and Blanchards pass on Whincup was awesome
The battle for 1st is where all the interest is

The Nissan's battling for 10th or Blanchard passing an ailing Whincup for 15th isn't the same, they are fighting over the crumbs.

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What have you been watching 155. May I say, Adelaide Scotty and SVG, battles for minors
So in 6 races, one on track pass for the lead. I didn't ask about last year, just this year

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Originally Posted by mceci1
What have you been watching 155. May I say, Adelaide Scotty and SVG, battles for minors, last year Bathurst, Sandown, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Homebush. Clipsal this year was a gap of 1 ten thousands of a second in shoot out. Where else in the world of motorsport do we see that, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE. The racing is the best it has ever been in the last few years, team mate rivalries, talent coming up, Chaz, Scotty M, SVG, Lowndes in the wet. What the hell else do you want to see. Our drivers are up their with the most elite motorsport drivers I think. Not to mention how tough the category is, look at the pedigree Simona has, not a disappointment by far, look how she is going. Another thing, Triple 8 v PRA v Penske v HSV. What else can you ask for, that is going to be an awesome battle to watch. In the last 10 years at least, we have not seen a Bathurst 1000 that has been boring. From 2005 on from what I can remember it has been known for its drama, and awesome races. 2014, track may have been damaged, but look at the end of the race, Chaz v Jamie. 2016, Tander, v Whincup v McLaughlin.

The problem is that people just don't like seeing the top teams there. V8 Supercars by far are not boring, and anyone who says they are, are some of the most delusional people. You wont see someone go flat out through the most wild corner in the country (Adelaide turn 8) on the last lap after 35 laps of being in 60 degree cabins like we did when Whincup and Courtney went at it last year.

This year, 78 laps and SVG and Scotty we still going blow for blow.

I rest my case, V8 Supercars are not boring like F1 when we always see Mercedes at the front in the recent past. NASCAR might be seen as exciting, but for most people they get excited at a crash, we get excited at hard fought racing in V8s.
You obviously enjoy what you see currently, thats great.

I've followed motor racing for 40-odd years, i don't get excited by control cars that qualify within bugger-all, which is what they are designed to do, yet produce little on-track passing up the front, all the talk is about pitstops and strategy.

Bathurst is all about the finish these days, not an endurance race. Look at last year, people *****ed all race about how boring it was without safety cars, then because of the last 20 laps exclaimed it was best 1000 ever, please, not in my book.

I can agree that Triple 8 v PRA v Penske will be interesting, not sure what HSV has done to get named in the battle though, they've been lagging behind all year.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 08:04 (Ref:3728577)   #18
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The battle for 1st is where all the interest is

The Nissan's battling for 10th or Blanchard passing an ailing Whincup for 15th isn't the same, they are fighting over the crumbs.



So in 6 races, one on track pass for the lead. I didn't ask about last year, just this year



You obviously enjoy what you see currently, thats great.

I've followed motor racing for 40-odd years, i don't get excited by control cars that qualify within bugger-all, which is what they are designed to do, yet produce little on-track passing up the front, all the talk is about pitstops and strategy.

Bathurst is all about the finish these days, not an endurance race. Look at last year, people *****ed all race about how boring it was without safety cars, then because of the last 20 laps exclaimed it was best 1000 ever, please, not in my book.

I can agree that Triple 8 v PRA v Penske will be interesting, not sure what HSV has done to get named in the battle though, they've been lagging behind all year.
I saw all of last years Bathurst as good.

The other point I have for motorsport, is what does F1 and NASCAR do for the fans, look at V8s and what the fans get, grid walks, the drivers are willing to stop and talk, meanwhile, in F1 there are a handful who care about the fans, NASCAR I don't know.

Also, just to clear, I wasn't calling you delusional, you seem to have a fair amount of knowledge. Just clearing that up so we don't get that one confused.

As a younger person chasing a career in motorsport I personally hope none of them disappear as they have their elements. In my opinion though, V8s are up there with the best.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 08:08 (Ref:3728579)   #19
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The battle for 1st is where all the interest is

The Nissan's battling for 10th or Blanchard passing an ailing Whincup for 15th isn't the same, they are fighting over the crumbs.



So in 6 races, one on track pass for the lead. I didn't ask about last year, just this year



You obviously enjoy what you see currently, thats great.

I've followed motor racing for 40-odd years, i don't get excited by control cars that qualify within bugger-all, which is what they are designed to do, yet produce little on-track passing up the front, all the talk is about pitstops and strategy.

Bathurst is all about the finish these days, not an endurance race. Look at last year, people *****ed all race about how boring it was without safety cars, then because of the last 20 laps exclaimed it was best 1000 ever, please, not in my book.

I can agree that Triple 8 v PRA v Penske will be interesting, not sure what HSV has done to get named in the battle though, they've been lagging behind all year.
Well that's a subjective opinion mate I believe the Racing has been great Clipsal McLaughlin and SVG were fighting for the lead and there was a good battle early on today
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 08:24 (Ref:3728581)   #20
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The other point I have for motorsport, is what does F1 and NASCAR do for the fans, look at V8s and what the fans get, grid walks, the drivers are willing to stop and talk, meanwhile, in F1 there are a handful who care about the fans, NASCAR I don't know.
NASCAR is probably the most fan-driven motorsport series in the world

As for F1, not much but do they need to? They've traded for years off the fact it's the top of the tree in world motorsport, and fans for decades have been happy to pay the ticket prices every year to see the best from a distance.

To be honest though, Supercar drivers and teams are the least accessible these days than they have ever been in the past.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 08:31 (Ref:3728586)   #21
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Well that's a subjective opinion mate I believe the Racing has been great Clipsal McLaughlin and SVG were fighting for the lead and there was a good battle early on today
Look at Lowndesy the legend getting it done
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 09:15 (Ref:3728592)   #22
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Good competition? How many on-track passes for the lead have there been this year?

What have you been watching 155. May I say, Adelaide Scotty and SVG, battles for minors, last year Bathurst, Sandown, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Homebush. Clipsal this year was a gap of 1 ten thousands of a second in shoot out. Where else in the world of motorsport do we see that, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE. The racing is the best it has ever been in the last few years, team mate rivalries, talent coming up, Chaz, Scotty M, SVG, Lowndes in the wet. What the hell else do you want to see. Our drivers are up their with the most elite motorsport drivers I think. Not to mention how tough the category is, look at the pedigree Simona has, not a disappointment by far, look how she is going. Another thing, Triple 8 v PRA v Penske v HSV. What else can you ask for, that is going to be an awesome battle to watch. In the last 10 years at least, we have not seen a Bathurst 1000 that has been boring. From 2005 on from what I can remember it has been known for its drama, and awesome races. 2014, track may have been damaged, but look at the end of the race, Chaz v Jamie. 2016, Tander, v Whincup v McLaughlin.

The problem is that people just don't like seeing the top teams there. V8 Supercars by far are not boring, and anyone who says they are, are some of the most delusional people. You wont see someone go flat out through the most wild corner in the country (Adelaide turn 8) on the last lap after 35 laps of being in 60 degree cabins like we did when Whincup and Courtney went at it last year.

This year, 78 laps and SVG and Scotty we still going blow for blow.

I rest my case, V8 Supercars are not boring like F1 when we always see Mercedes at the front in the recent past. NASCAR might be seen as exciting, but for most people they get excited at a crash, we get excited at hard fought racing in V8s.
No one is denying the skill level of the category, my point is: who cares?

The mullet sporting, stubbies wearing, XXXX drinking, V8 driving bogan is dying. Interest in motorsport (this category in particular) is dying. They can try to liven it up, but the cars and skill presented isn't the problem, its the relevance of the motor vehicle, motorsport in general and particularly Australian motorsport culture in a country and world that is moving on. My main point is I'm happy to now move on before my time because they've destroyed it ahead of schedule by making it very clear that 8 races out of 10, Tim Schenken decides who the winner is. I'm no longer interested in watching a sport about dry old men watching painted lines on the road and reading rule books instead of it being about racing. An event has been turned into a farce one too many times. The sport is simply a mirror of the nanny state in which we currently live.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 09:19 (Ref:3728598)   #23
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Mostert just got fined $3k for his burnout... I have nothing left to say.
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 09:22 (Ref:3728600)   #24
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Mostert just got fined $3k for his burnout... I have nothing left to say.
He got fined for it because he nearly cleaned up a fellow car
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Old 23 Apr 2017, 09:25 (Ref:3728601)   #25
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Mostert just got fined $3k for his burnout... I have nothing left to say.
He was told clearly by the team on the radio to wait for all the cars to pass and do the burnout after turn 1

He did the burnout in turn 1, before the other cars had all come past, and nearly cleaned up Jason Bright

$3000 is a light sentence, lucky to not get any championship points taken.
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