Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 19 Aug 2013, 17:14 (Ref:3291775)   #1
Biscuits In A Red Bull
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
United Kingdom
Posts: 2,493
Biscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBiscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ricciardo is the man?!

After reading this article (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109333), it will become obvious to you that Daniel Ricciardo is the man who will replace Mark Webber to take over the role of "pushover Aussie" for RBR.

However, this is clearly not the best RBR could do. If not for 'sponsorship problems' then what's wrong with Nico Hulkenberg?

And even within STR, Ricciardo has been outdone in the past 2 championships by Jean-Éric Vergne in the standings.

As good as he is, is he really deserving of a top seat?
Biscuits In A Red Bull is offline  
__________________
"Is this stock car racing or is this motorsport?!" - John Cleland
Quote
Old 19 Aug 2013, 20:44 (Ref:3291824)   #2
Teretonga
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,786
Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!
I don't think he has been undone by JEV at all. You have to look at more than just the results.

Kimi wanted more than RBR were prepared to give him and they were not prepared to create tension in a team that is the opposite of the image they live with and have created amongst themselves.
Now there's only the Kimi to Ferrari rumours to settle unless of course Fernando really does walk away....
Teretonga is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 00:54 (Ref:3291886)   #3
BSchneiderFan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
United Kingdom
London, UK
Posts: 5,191
BSchneiderFan has a real shot at the podium!BSchneiderFan has a real shot at the podium!BSchneiderFan has a real shot at the podium!BSchneiderFan has a real shot at the podium!
I have a gut feeling - and they are usually wrong - that Ricciardo may blossom at Red Bull. They just need to cut him some slack early on, but I think he may be up at the front by the end of next season (unless the car is a dog).
BSchneiderFan is offline  
__________________
Interviewer: "Will the McLaren F1 be your answer to the Ferrari F40?"
Gordon Murray: "Hmm... I don't think we have anyone at McLaren who can weld that badly..."
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 01:08 (Ref:3291888)   #4
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 15,077
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
the very best of british to ricciardo if he has got the drive for next year. it's going to be one of, if not the best car on the grid and what he's been working towards his whole life.

it's a surprise in that they obviously had better drivers to go for but if one of those wants more in a season than red bull invested in ricciardo's entire pre-f1 career... it defeats the object of brewing your own f1 driver in the first place. depending on how vergne (or even da costa) goes at toro rosso ricciardo could be on a very short leash...
bella is offline  
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 01:28 (Ref:3291894)   #5
Teretonga
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,786
Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bella View Post
the very best of british to ricciardo if he has got the drive for next year. it's going to be one of, if not the best car on the grid and what he's been working towards his whole life.

it's a surprise in that they obviously had better drivers to go for but if one of those wants more in a season than red bull invested in ricciardo's entire pre-f1 career... it defeats the object of brewing your own f1 driver in the first place. depending on how vergne (or even da costa) goes at toro rosso ricciardo could be on a very short leash...
This is very true. Ricciardo has the chance to make a real impression now that Mark has moved on, (or was it that Mark moved on knowing that the use by date was coming up and decided he'd rather jump than be pushed....even if he could have had the chance of staying another year that may have been the limit.)

F1 can be really harsh and people who have not ingrained themselves to their employers sufficiently have often been moved on without ceremony if someone better was available.
Historically Johansson, Rosberg, Andretti, Brundle, were all moved from McLaren after a season for someone who was perceived as better or more desirable.
Watson procrastinated over his contract and suddenly Prost became available. Dear John... Then Kovalainen made way for Button....

And this is just McLaren.
RBR can look for another Vettel far more cheaply than buying an existing or current champion. But if you don't cut the mustard they aren't going to mess around and that is maybe why being a Red Bull baby is a bit of a poisoned chalice. You may only get one throw at it
If Red Bull drop you then everyone knows you aren't probably up to elite standard so it creates an signal to every other team in the F1 paddock that you aren't going to set the world on fire.
Teretonga is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 02:14 (Ref:3291903)   #6
Mekola
Veteran
 
Mekola's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Kiribati
Kiribati
Posts: 6,339
Mekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It seems to be the man for RBR.
Mekola is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 03:09 (Ref:3291918)   #7
Razzzor
Veteran
 
Razzzor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 1,007
Razzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Vettel was more of a gamble than Ricciardo, he'd only had one season under his belt, and it's was very mixed. Didn't he dnf on the first lap 3-4 races in a row in 2008?

Although he did win a race and RB wasn't the top team back then.

They kind of have to support their driver program, otherwise it just makes a mockery of it and the Torro Rosso team. Kimi was slightly different, because he's a top 4 driver in F1. Hulkenberg is not.

It'll be strange seeing Da Costa in the Torro Rosso next year, in some ways he hasn't really earned that seat yet. A few wins in WSR, mostly last year, and then a solid comeback in Gp3 in 2012 (only because Mitch just couldn't seem to string some luck together in the latter half) doesn't put him above guys like Valsecchi and Frijns who are champions.
Razzzor is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 08:49 (Ref:3291958)   #8
Peat
Veteran
 
Peat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
United Kingdom
Dahn Sahf
Posts: 1,589
Peat has a real shot at the podium!Peat has a real shot at the podium!Peat has a real shot at the podium!Peat has a real shot at the podium!Peat has a real shot at the podium!
Valsecchi? Woah.

Now there's a name i never expected to hear again.
Peat is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 08:55 (Ref:3291959)   #9
Biscuits In A Red Bull
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
United Kingdom
Posts: 2,493
Biscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBiscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzzor View Post
They kind of have to support their driver program, otherwise it just makes a mockery of it and the Torro Rosso team. Kimi was slightly different, because he's a top 4 driver in F1. Hulkenberg is not.
But have Red Bull invested money in the wrong guy? The answer? Well we'll have to wait for next season, but if he puts in mediocre performances then the Hulk would be better I'm sure, and if he's used as his likely role of "pushover Aussie" then you could've signed anyone!

And look down to RBR's driver programme. Both da Costa and Sainz Jr could do with a couple more seasons under their belts to mature and become a world class racer, which they have the potential to do, but Danil Kyvat? His awful test showings at Silverstone aren't the only problems. If he's meant to be the next driver for RBRs F1 team(s), then why is he not competitive in European F3? Whilst Marciello is Ferrari's man, why not invest in Felix Rosenqvist or Alex Lynn, who show more potential?

And then there is clearly some favouritism from Christian Horner between the 2 STR drivers. As far as I'm concerned, by looking at Ricciardo and not Vergne, then claiming the Frenchman is not ready for F1, after showing some amazing pace at Monaco and Montreal, only to suddenly drop away from Ricciardo, suggests to me that maybe Ricciardo's sudden and massive advantage isn't just the Aussie's determination, but also Red Bull trying to hype up their next driver, and as a result Vergne is now looking average again. Call me cynical, but this could be the case. It would certainly give Ricciardo a big psychological boost heading into next season.

And Hulkenberg, given the car, could easily be one of Formula 1's best ever drivers. He led the most laps in the 2012 Brazilian GP finale in a Force India in outrageously slippery conditions, giving wet weather demi-gods Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton (something British then?) a run for his money. And he should've got a podium at Spa last year, but the team put him on a slower strategy than those around him, costing him.
Biscuits In A Red Bull is offline  
__________________
"Is this stock car racing or is this motorsport?!" - John Cleland
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 10:04 (Ref:3291969)   #10
steve_r
Veteran
 
steve_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
England
European Capital of Culture 2008
Posts: 2,155
steve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Red Bull have nothing to lose by putting Ricciardo in the car on a one-year deal. If he fails, they will still have a 3 (or 4?) time WDC in the other car who (barring freak injury) will extract the best out of it.

Honestly, if they did not go for one of the Torro Rosso drivers, what is the point of having that as a second team? I think Ricciardo will do well. In fact, I think RBR have made this decision one year too late.
steve_r is offline  
__________________
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 10:09 (Ref:3291971)   #11
Biscuits In A Red Bull
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
United Kingdom
Posts: 2,493
Biscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBiscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_r View Post
In fact, I think RBR have made this decision one year too late.
I don't. Mark Webber was there.
Biscuits In A Red Bull is offline  
__________________
"Is this stock car racing or is this motorsport?!" - John Cleland
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 11:42 (Ref:3291988)   #12
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 15,077
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
RBR can look for another Vettel far more cheaply than buying an existing or current champion. But if you don't cut the mustard they aren't going to mess around and that is maybe why being a Red Bull baby is a bit of a poisoned chalice. You may only get one throw at it
If Red Bull drop you then everyone knows you aren't probably up to elite standard so it creates an signal to every other team in the F1 paddock that you aren't going to set the world on fire.
the counterpoint to that is that you *do* at least get a chance to have a go though. they'll give you a couple of seasons if you deliver on the way up, which is more than guys like frijns have right now. aside from a huge wallet, red bull seem to be the only ones who really know what to look for in a potential f1 driver and even then their decisions have been a bit off. but what they can do is take a very good, if not absolutely the best talent and turn them into a very competant f1 driver. not all that easy to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzzor View Post
It'll be strange seeing Da Costa in the Torro Rosso next year, in some ways he hasn't really earned that seat yet. A few wins in WSR, mostly last year, and then a solid comeback in Gp3 in 2012 (only because Mitch just couldn't seem to string some luck together in the latter half) doesn't put him above guys like Valsecchi and Frijns who are champions.
i agree about da costa, but i think that's just because there was so much noise about him last year. ricciardo had a very quiet year (aside from a monaco win) in the run up and parallel to his hrt drive a couple of years ago, so they're not really looking for the same things we look for. he has been stitched up by some interesting team decisions this year to be fair, that engine issue at the red bull ring definitely has more to it than meets the eye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull View Post
And look down to RBR's driver programme. Both da Costa and Sainz Jr could do with a couple more seasons under their belts to mature and become a world class racer, which they have the potential to do, but Danil Kyvat? His awful test showings at Silverstone aren't the only problems. If he's meant to be the next driver for RBRs F1 team(s), then why is he not competitive in European F3? Whilst Marciello is Ferrari's man, why not invest in Felix Rosenqvist or Alex Lynn, who show more potential?
da costa has been around single seater racing so long that if he isn't ready now, he isn't ever going to be ready. have a look at his career, and the teams he has had the opportunity to drive for. i think you're being a bit harsh on sainz jnr and kvyat though - there is no single way to treat all drivers that will extract the maximum from them. i personally believe that kvyat is damn quick, but he's missing so many strings to his bow that they should be picking a very very good engineer, and sticking him in f3 for a few years. if he's still not there then he never will be. there's more to it than simply results.

i just had a look at the 3.5 field to try and find some counter-suggestions to your f3 ones (who don't inspire me at all, sorry ), but mclaren, and lotus have got the couple of drivers who i'm most impressed by. i think muller has endless potential and would be a great fit with williams, stevens is fine for caterham, but i can't quite think of a home for melker. he's really quick though, even if you get the distinct impression that he's being flattered by a teammate whose heart just isn't in it any more.

i think you're barking up the wrong tree by suggesting there's bias within red bull, but that's just my opinion rather than being backed up by some sort of ~insider knowledge. ricciardo has just been doing exactly what he's been doing all year whilst vergne has good days and bad days around him. there's no doubt that on a good day, jev is better than ricciardo, imo. vergne was fine in qualifying in 3.5 and f3, give or take a tenth or two with similar small time and tyre windows for performance, so perhaps it's related to tyre characteristics?

also, imo you're flattering hulkenberg - throughout his career to f1 he has had the best car, in the best team in any series. he's very good and well-practiced at exploiting that, and he's certainly producing some good performances in f1, but a hero? hmmm.

woah, epic post, sorry!
bella is offline  
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 14:20 (Ref:3292023)   #13
Bononi
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
Bononi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location:
Deep in the Chaos Nation's countryside
Posts: 21,600
Bononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Good decision putting Ricciardo there, hopefully he'll do better (?) than Webber, whatever that means.
Bononi is offline  
__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman
An' I'll show you somebody who will
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 15:15 (Ref:3292032)   #14
andy666
Racer
 
andy666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
United Kingdom
Lincolnshire
Posts: 470
andy666 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridandy666 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bononi View Post
Good decision putting Ricciardo there, hopefully he'll do better (?) than Webber, whatever that means.
I hope he does better but I just can't see it , I see a future of KERS failures for Ricciardo
andy666 is offline  
__________________
BREXIT
Quote
Old 20 Aug 2013, 21:20 (Ref:3292139)   #15
stripedcat
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,221
stripedcat should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridstripedcat should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well, I suppose that I can see the thinking behind it. Having a second team and developing drivers there for Red Bull. Plus, having him serve as an understudy to Vettel might be good. Having Kimi and Vettel lock horns(no pun intended) in the same team might turn things nasty.
stripedcat is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ricciardo vs Vergne ( vs Raikkonen) FAS33 Formula One 207 14 Sep 2013 08:38
[Driver] Ricciardo Skam85 Formula One 150 30 Dec 2011 10:45
What should Red Bull do with Ricciardo manwell Formula One 15 18 Nov 2010 12:15
Bottas v Ricciardo - How are they comparing? chunterer National & International Single Seaters 16 5 Jul 2010 09:24
Well done my man! - But not who u think s98sadds Formula One 13 20 Aug 2001 22:34


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.