Who was better? Damon Hill or Jacques Villeneuve?

[ralf fan]

and Hill actually did well to keep it on track in those conditions when most cars were flying around.

but as Adam pointed out Jordon were going onto bigger and better things when he was around... he developed the car.. true frentzen outshined him in 99 but hey all great drivers go through bad patches especially in the twilight of their careers (just look at JV )

[ASCII Man]

*leaves quietly*

[Mr V]

Rather ironic that both Damon and Jacques lost out in their final season to team-mates that they should easily (theoretically) have beaten.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Mr V
Rather ironic that both Damon and Jacques lost out in their final season to team-mates that they should easily (theoretically) have beaten.

Not ironic IMHO, but quite a likely reason for it to be your last season. Not many have last seasons where they destroy their team mates! Especially if they are in a lesser team.

[corkholio]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
The first BAR was achually quite quick at some tracks - Jacques qualified on row 3 at Imola and Barcelona, and there were top 10 grid spots at Nurburgring and Monaco (for Salo). The car's only real problem was reliability, as he lost at least 10-15 points that way. The lowest Dmaon's 1998 Jordan qualified was 16th, and it was in teh top 10 right from the first race.

Giving up when the car isn't good is bad enough. Giving up when your team-mate is fighting for the title and you can't be bothered is worse. Damon's 1999 season is perhaps the worst a world champion has ever put up.

That Jordan didn't score any points until the 9th race of the year.

Both drivers have similar records when they were at Williams, but Damon has a far superior record, even if it wasn't that impressive, outside of Williams. Heck, at least he actually finished his final season.

[Hazza]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Not ironic IMHO, but quite a likely reason for it to be your last season. Not many have last seasons where they destroy their team mates! Especially if they are in a lesser team.

Possibly only Frentzen.

[Mr V]

I wouldn't say that HH-F destroyed Heidfeld, but he did score more points, which is what matters most at the end of the day.

[Jordi]

Originally posted by corkholio
That Jordan didn't score any points until the 9th race of the year.

Both drivers have similar records when they were at Williams, but Damon has a far superior record, even if it wasn't that impressive, outside of Williams. Heck, at least he actually finished his final season.

OK, the 198 was a pig earlier on. Ralf didn't help much in the points-hunt initially, as he kept spinning off, notably in Argentina.

But you'll have to agree that the BAR 01 was no Ferrari either. Jacques was 5th in qualifying at Imola but it didn't belong there. Jacques was more than once the fastest Supertec qualifier.

Oh, in 2000 BAR finished 5th, but I suppose Jacques didn't have a part on that. He was a nuisance already, right?

[Jordi]

And about Damon finishing the season, tell me what's better. Retire when your heart is not in it or carry on 9 more races until the end of the year?

Whatever they did, both Damon and Jacques were/have been criticised...

[Red]

Not wanting to be a pest, but Jacques Villeneuve carried it a couple of years, not only 9 races..

Really, that was not an argument,

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by jonnyrickett
Villeneuve and Hill was the ultimate partnership.

I suspect you'd find Jim Clark/Graham Hill, Juan Manuel Fangio/Stirling Moss and Ayrton Senna/Alain Prost to name just three partnerships, were better than Damon and Jacques.

[Red]

Senna/Prost was anything you want; but definitelly NOT a partnership.

[Kicking-back]

Well, Senna and Prost finished first and second in the championship, so how ever much they disliked each other it was still an effective partnership.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Red
Senna/Prost was anything you want; but definitelly NOT a partnership.

Very much a partnership, even in the worse days of the intra-team rivalry they still worked together to try and make the car better.

[Jordi]

Originally posted by Red
Not wanting to be a pest, but Jacques Villeneuve carried it a couple of years, not only 9 races..

Really, that was not an argument,

Oh, you're always a pest! Just joking

Thing is, most people think Jacques was not in it in 2002 and 2003, but he really was. Even more in 2003 than in 2002. But people only see numbers and dollars. The dollars that are not being used for improving the BAR....

[Wrex]

Jordi, I dont think it was JV's paycheck that really got him into trouble, but his mouth. Most just use the money as additional ammunition.

I'm sure had he kept quiet, got down to it and was producing results (before engines blew), his popularity would have increased from sympathy rather than decreased from irritation.