[Rumours] Le Castellet circuit about to return?

[höller]

There are strong rumours this days about the return of one of F1 most atmospheric tracks, the circuit "Paul Ricard" at Le Castellet. Downgraded to test-purpose only after 1990 and deprived of his grandstands by Mr. E, afterwards staging for some Sportscar and GT-races, it looks now a 23-year long sleep could find an end in September 2013, when the next French GP is about to be scheduled. It seems there should be a biennial rotation system established with the debt-ridden Belgian GP and we were told today a final solution should be found in a short time. Now it´s a question of the french government and investors, because e.g. a certain number of grandstands have to be re-erected (should be carried to Mr. E.´s account for his nonsense if you ask me).
For me personally, the Le Castellet track brings back memories of gorgeous Grand Prix racing in it´s unique mediterranian, July heat hazing ambience, of turbo car-slipstream battles on the "Mistral" (which will be retained for gods sake). As nowadays there is much discomfort about new tracks (often called "Tilke tracks") being sterile and "soulless", the return of Le Castellet could be a non-expected spot of colour to F1. I appreciate it! Who else does?

[m1fcf]

Liking the sound of this. But I expect lots of work to get it to happen. I hope the circuit owner has deep
Pockets to pay the fees required by BCE and F1 management.... Oh, yes right! Maybe not a problem then? ;-)

[pauln]

It was with Istanbul Park...

[bella]

i like the buildings at the circuit, the landscape, and the surrounding area is my home, but f1? not on that layout. it's a completely soulless experience, albeit a strangely beautiful one because of the painted tarmac and the various stylings. a day's racing there feels like a day's testing. you can have thousands of people turn up but nothing happens to the atmosphere any more.

the only familiar things are that the start finish straight is in the same place, they use a similar location for the assembly area and the trees and plants are familiarly cote d'azur and provencal. i too remember the old venue, albeit towards the end of its life at a local bike race.

(ps, höller, love the way you phrase things. refreshingly wistful in comparison to the standard styling of posting in the f1 forum )

[Marbot]

I think that the main problem with the circuit is that it is pretty much all run off area. But I believe that the surface varies in texture depending on what colour you've found yourself running on to.

Got this from wiki:

"The track is characterised by its long Mistral straight (1.8 km) and elongated track design. The track is also unusual in that it is built on a plateau, and is very flat. The length of the full track is around 3.610 miles (5.8 km). In 1986 the track was modified to shorten the circuit. This shorter circuit is known as the GP short circuit and is 2.369 miles (3.8 km) long. The track offers 167 possible configurations from 826 to 5,861 metres.[1] Its flexibility and mild winter weather mean that it is used for testing by several motorsport teams, including Formula One teams.

The track is known for its distinctive black and blue runoff areas known as the Blue Zone. The runoff surface consists of a mixture of asphalt and tungsten, used instead of gravel traps, as common at other circuits.[2] A second, deeper run-off area is the Red Zone, with a more abrasive surface designed to maximize tyre grip and hence minimize braking distance, although at the cost of intense tyre wear. The final safeguard consists of Tecpro barriers, a modern improvement on tyre barriers.[2]"

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Marbot

The track is known for its distinctive black and blue runoff areas known as the Blue Zone. The runoff surface consists of a mixture of asphalt and tungsten, used instead of gravel traps, as common at other circuits.[2] A second, deeper run-off area is the Red Zone, with a more abrasive surface designed to maximize tyre grip and hence minimize braking distance, although at the cost of intense tyre wear. The final safeguard consists of Tecpro barriers, a modern improvement on tyre barriers.[2]"

The run off areas should at least punish those on soft Pirelli's compared with most circuit's get out of jail run off area's.

Ferrari want to see a return of a French GP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97011

[Adam43]

Will one trip into the red zone make that much difference?

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Will one trip into the red zone make that much difference?

We won't know until F1 cars try it but looking at current wear rates and the risk of flat spots on that type of surface it could shortent tyre life.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

So lets get the Pirrelli test hack down to Le Castellet and do some testing of the main surface and the coloured run offs, see what actually happens to the tyre wear.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

So lets get the Pirrelli test hack down to Le Castellet and do some testing of the main surface and the coloured run offs, see what actually happens to the tyre wear.

No. Let's not do that, and let the drivers find out for themselves during the race.

[Wims]

I cant say I'm as excited about Le Castellet as OP. Its such a flat, artificial and lifeless track, its hard to be excited about it. Its good that we get a race in France, but I dont think Le Castellet is the best place to go.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Wims

I cant say I'm as excited about Le Castellet as OP. Its such a flat, artificial and lifeless track, its hard to be excited about it. Its good that we get a race in France, but I dont think Le Castellet is the best place to go.

Oh god, Paul Ricard or Magny Cours...? Its like being asked which leg do you want chopped off...

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Oh god, Paul Ricard or Magny Cours...? Its like being asked which leg do you want chopped off...

I didn't mind magny Cours although it was a bit remote out in the countryside.
Ricard I have fond memories of.

The races it produced in the 80's and nineties are all great memories for me so I don't have any pre-existing negative feelings toward the place. I lamented bernie taking it over and turning it into a test track.

I will look forward to a GP there again, although I will be disappointed to lose Spa for that year.

[höller]

As Piero Ferrari (when Mr. Ferrari announces something in public usually it´s about something of prime importance) stated, and many people would agree, the historical core of F1 should be retained also in terms of tracks, so a French GP is necessary and the best solution is the Paul Ricard track. Hard enough, under current circumstances. Bitter enough, as we will see the Belgian GP only halftime.

The ancient Le Castellet track co-designed by Henri Pescarolo may have been the better one, but please be thankful at least we won´t see the short version with the cut-off Mistral. There is even a little chance the Mistral will go (flat) without any chicane! And obviously Paul Ricard is the better solution than the infamous Disneyland GP.

I think every Tilke track is artificial, but this one is a special one because of its historical heritage, a still demanding track, his unique character "mediterraneé" and his remarkable, innovative special features. Concerning the "lifelessness" please complain to Mr. E. Without grandstands even Monza would be a wash-out, so please give the Paul Ricard people a fair chance.

[JeremySmith]

Very nicely put..

[bella]

sorry, we had about 10,000-15,000 people there on a race day with live telly (and alain prost doing laps in a classic f1 car) and it just didn't light up. mostly because big single seaters don't work on that circuit for some reason. there were some overtakes but not many - the corners are profiled for testing, not to create racing opportunities. it's not a surprise.

what bothers me slightly is... what sort of fans would the f1 race attract? if there's a high vip to fan percentage there's no chance of an atmosphere.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by bella

what bothers me slightly is... what sort of fans would the f1 race attract? if there's a high vip to fan percentage there's no chance of an atmosphere.

I don't really have anything top ad about the circuit it self but this bit interested me, what makes you worry about this? Is F1 interest dying off in France? I would've thought that a summer race in the south of france, at a classic venue, wouldn't have a problem attracting a good crowd of fans.

[ascarmarshal]

So Bernie would be paying himself to hold a Grand prix?

[JohnMiller]

I thought it was sold on a year or two ago?

[strider]

I went there in the mid-Nineties for a BPR Sports GT race as a team member and the whole weekend was a great experience, apart from failing miserably to use the manual timing device correctly, but that was then.

BF3 went there last year. I didn't go, but I've talked to people who did and have seen the TV reviews. The place simply has no atmosphere. It's hard to take it seriously. Nice weather, probably, and good amenities for the teams, but that's it.

The thought of it alternating with Spa on the calendar is appalling. As Piero Ferrari said, the great circuits must remain and that means every year.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

I don't really have anything top ad about the circuit it self but this bit interested me, what makes you worry about this? Is F1 interest dying off in France? I would've thought that a summer race in the south of france, at a classic venue, wouldn't have a problem attracting a good crowd of fans.

i'm not sure about the tv figures, but the fact the world series by renault hasn't really worked in france in the past few years says a lot in my opinion. in 2010 magny cours was quiet, though also fairly cold and wet. in 2011, it was unseasonably warm, fairly well advertised locally and had the lure of alain prost yet it was just as quiet as magny cours. contrast that with the insane crowds in hungary and silverstone for the same events. there didn't quite seem to be much overwhelming interest. granted, there had been a switch in venues but you'd expect a bigger crowd, particularly in the context of france having such a streong motorsport and f1 history.

ricard is a pain in the arse to get to, there's no other way to put it. i come from the east towards cannes and it's a trek cross country from the motorway on narrow awkward modes through small towns. i gather it's a bit better from toulon or the west, though not by much. if you're not local, the autoroute tolls are getting seriously expensive now, and unleaded fuel is more expensive than in the uk.

add that to the fact that the circuit is and always will be nowadays set up better for the vips than the fans. parking inside the circuit is limited, and since you've got vips you'd not be able to park people on the airfield unless you wanted to just do helicopters.

we also get the monaco gp just 2 hours away from ricard too, which has definitely suffered in the past few years crowd-wise. that's easy and cheapish to get to by public transport which is definitely something that can't be said for ricard.

as for the 'south of france' effect... it'd probably be a great hit with the parisians who have a house down there. but i think monaco already exploits that market, and far more successfully.

/waffle

[wolfhound]

Looking at the options for a French GP to me there are currently only three circuits that should be currently near F1 standards namely Magny Cours, Paul Ricard & Le Mans. The latter probably has the best infrastructure, both Magny Cours & Ricard can be difficult to get to. Ricard needs a lot of internal infrastructure added and the ACO don't want F1. I suspect they also don't want anything to do with Bernie.

[bella]

i don't understand how magny cours is difficult to get to. there's a dual carriageway straight to the door once you come off the autoroute. if you're coming from the south, nevers isn't that far off the a75 trek over millau via clermont ferrand. it's as easy as silverstone now.

[JeremySmith]

So if you had to choose which one would it be bella?

[Mystery]

Mangy Cours is the only F1 race I've been to and I found it a wonderful experience. I'd love it to go back there (or indeed Le Mans except it just won't happen).

Le Castellet is a 12 hour drive from St Malo. Nevers is six with a nice lunch stop in Le Mans. Easy choice that!