McLaren: the art of racing

[nicanary]

I've just been reading a copy of the present issue of Motor Sport, and seen the "mission control" at McLaren HQ used to monitor the events going on wherever the team are racing.

Holy smoke! Am I being naive, or did you all know about this? I knew that McLaren could monitor the behaviour of an F1 road car from their base, and that at the circuits they had all the equipment to analyse and adjust any problems with the GP cars in situ, but all the same!!!

Is this what it's all come to? I thought we were all joking when we said that eventually the cars will not need drivers.It reminds me of a dumb "Bond" film, with the statutory underground lair with henchmen running everywhere. Ye gods. Alf Francis must be spinning in his proverbial.

Surely this has all gone far enough.They talk about trying to reduce costs, and then we get this. Opinions, anyone?

[MagnetON]

Well telemetry from the cars is just data, it's received by radio in the pits, and once it's there it can go anywhere for analysis.

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

Well telemetry from the cars is just data, it's received by radio in the pits, and once it's there it can go anywhere for analysis.

Good point. But how can any team justify this when they know that the sport is trying to show the public that it's reducing its overheads?

I've just noticed that the book is written by Maurice Hamilton, which gives it some credence, but it's £99 a pop for some pretty pictures. I expect Mclaren will be giving one out to all the "celebrities" who visit the pits.Will Ice T hold it the right way up?

I don't suppose HRT and co. have thse facilities. Do we know if any other team does?

[MagnetON]

I'm sure you'll find that all the teams will have something similar, possibly not to the same extent. As for cost, if they already have the people then it's only data. I would also assume that having people "remote" from the circuit takes a load of pressure off and means that they are better able to concentrate on the task at hand rather than worrying about hotel/food/packing/getting to the airport after the race, etc.

[Marbot]

MagnetON, could you please remove that Avatar? I'm on a diet.

IIRC, Coulthard did a bit of a thing where he went inside the McLaren factory and we saw an army of people who were sorting out race strategy whilst the race took place elsewhere. This allows them to monitor fuel consumption, and all that other interesting stuff. They probably even monitor what sort of mood Hamilton is in.

In stark contrast, the MotoGP riders have to stare at pit boards whilst flashing passed them at well over 200mph. Any problems, and you arrive in the pits completely unannounced.

[nicanary]

Hmmm. I hadn't really expected forum members to accept it as just part of the deal. It DOES mean employing extra people back at base, and have uyou seen how many there are?

I think that maybe my feelings about it belong on a nostalgia thread. I like the comparison with MotoGP. Surely all the data analysis is overload? What's wrong with a "best mate" in greasy overalls, that's what I say.

Seriously though, now that the big teams have become used to this back-up, how are they ever going to be persuaded to abandon it? Next thing is, there'll be an app on your I-phone so the viewer can decide what happens next.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by nicanary

Seriously though, now that the big teams have become used to this back-up, how are they ever going to be persuaded to abandon it? Next thing is, there'll be an app on your I-phone so the viewer can decide what happens next.

Well I wouldn't use an iPhone but you already get a lot of info on your phone. If you pay F1,com you can get live timing, it's not a big leap from there to other important bits of telemetry.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by nicanary

Next thing is, there'll be an app on your I-phone so the viewer can decide what happens next.

Press # to see Massa win. hmmm...it all seems very unlikely.

[nicanary]

I'm off to work now until the morrow, in case anyone thinks I'm ignoring comments/questions.

Why isn't a bank of screens in a van in the paddock enough? Just think of the running costs for that HQ - rates,heat,light,electricity,wages,uniforms etc..I've never understood why the place had to be so grandiose - they make cars in penny-numbers.

Or is Big Ron in some hidden room over-seeing 5 yr-olds making Olympic Games memorabilia? Leather breeches and a bull-whip.

[wolfhound]

Teams are only allowed a certain number of people at the races so this is one reason why they use the factory to carry out some functions.

[Shawn]

I remember seeing a program on Motors with Williams staff monitoring progress from home whist a race was on in some part of the world.

Just with them they were down the pub.

[Adam43]

It is crazy and I do have sympathy with the it was better when they didn't.

Why do they do it?
To be better than those who don't. To have access to all their experts at a race.

Expense?
Cheaper than sending them to the race. They aren't employing more people just using resource that is normally wasted while the cars are away racing. Got a problem with a part? Ask Billy who designed it. Or George who has a wealth of experience. And they don't have to be away from home for so long!

Do you need a computer and to do it remotely to have a discussion? No, but your here on 10-10ths!

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

If you pay F1,com you can get live timing, it's not a big leap from there to other important bits of telemetry.

This is free, Peter.

[neiltb]

another reason to limit the # of data streams that you can get from telemetry. I dread to think of the number of channels of data currently beamed back. Give them a byte/sec limit or a channel limit. I have a piece of process equipment at my work and get 26 channels of data every 4 seconds and it's only 5MB over 8 hours.

It would save them a fortune on hard drives.

[Paradise City]

Big teams resembling Bond villain hideaways happened because F1 has always prided itself on being cutting edge so we wind up here in the IT age with these grotesque HQ's that would embarrass NASA mission control.

Get rid of it. Over a few years, perhaps, so teams can wind it down and work off their investment, but get rid of it. We're in the cost-cutting era so strip out the telemetry and ban windtunnels. Assign an FIA delegation to the 12 teams to monitor compliance. There's a law of diminishing returns with these glamorous gadgets anyway.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Big teams resembling Bond villain hideaways happened because F1 has always prided itself on being cutting edge so we wind up here in the IT age with these grotesque HQ's that would embarrass NASA mission control.

Get rid of it. Over a few years, perhaps, so teams can wind it down and work off their investment, but get rid of it. We're in the cost-cutting era so strip out the telemetry and ban windtunnels. Assign an FIA delegation to the 12 teams to monitor compliance. There's a law of diminishing returns with these glamorous gadgets anyway.

F1 cars are so far past the line of diminishing returns that it has become a dot.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Well I wouldn't use an iPhone but you already get a lot of info on your phone. If you pay F1,com you can get live timing, it's not a big leap from there to other important bits of telemetry.

Why do you prefer looking at that silly little screen on your Blackberry ?

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Big teams resembling Bond villain hideaways happened because F1 has always prided itself on being cutting edge so we wind up here in the IT age with these grotesque HQ's that would embarrass NASA mission control.

Get rid of it. Over a few years, perhaps, so teams can wind it down and work off their investment, but get rid of it. We're in the cost-cutting era so strip out the telemetry and ban windtunnels. Assign an FIA delegation to the 12 teams to monitor compliance. There's a law of diminishing returns with these glamorous gadgets anyway.

Nice to see someone else on the Emerald Isle in agreement. I do respect the other points of view, but was astounded by the flagrant showmanship of the whole thing at a time when the "back of the grid" teams must be wondering why they ever bothered.

The attempts at cost-cutting so far have been a complete joke - BCE has got to sit down with these guys and thrash it out. I like the idea of a compliance team provided that they're not told to "take it easy" on certain teams (we need them, nudge,nudge, you know, that lot in red).

[Marbot]

Well, that's the difficult thing. You have to take into account what HRT wants as well as what Ferrari wants out of F1.

HRT, among others, aren't selling road cars, and Ferrari aren't struggling with cash problems.

[Adam43]

I fully subscribe to the diminishing returns theory, although make no comment on whether it still isn't worth it. However:

Originally Posted by luke g28

F1 cars are so far past the line of diminishing returns that it has become a dot.

If it has diminished so much how come some cars are faster than others?
It hasn't diminished as much for McLaren

[Marbot]

Indeed.

There must be some reason why some cars are five seconds per lap quicker than other cars, and those faster cars are still finding improvements throughout the season.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I fully subscribe to the diminishing returns theory, although make no comment on whether it still isn't worth it. However:
If it has diminished so much how come some cars are faster than others?
It hasn't diminished as much for McLaren

Budget.

Both from the point of view of overall expenditure and the wages you can offer for the top designers.

There is very little chance of a mid field team turning up at one race and winning on merit. Likewise we know come the start of the season that Ferrari, Mclaren and Redbull are going to be the top 3 teams.

Who will spend the most over the season, Mclaren or Caterham? Yet which will make the biggest gain in lap time? Probably Caterham.

[Adam43]

So budget means that you can make a better cars? That is exactly my point. The returns haven't completely diminished to a dot then.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

This is free, Peter.

The mobile version is twenty quid. Used to be free but not now. It is free on the lappy or pooter.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by Adam43

So budget means that you can make a better cars? That is exactly my point. The returns haven't completely diminished to a dot then.

Yes.

Hypothetically,

say a lap time of 1:20 costs £35m
1:19 costs an additional £5m
1:18 costs an additional £10m
1:17.5 costs an additional £15m
1:17.2 is an additional £15m

So the top 3 are on 1:17.2's the mid field are 1:17.5-1:18 and the bottom teams are 1:19-1:20.

Diminishing returns is larger costs for smaller gains. It doesnt mean that in a money no object situation it is impossible to improve on lap time, just that it costs more and more for a smaller gain.

Now by enforcing a budget cap, the lower teams cannot close up the last few tenths to the front runners as the cost could exceed their entire seasons budget.

If you compare Mclarens budget with saubers, how much more do mclaren spend each year to cross the line 1-2 car lengths ahead of a sauber over a flying lap? Is that investment "value for money" ?