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9 Feb 2016, 02:44 (Ref:3613268) | #1 | |
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Sean Edwards Coronial Inquest
The Coroner has released his report on the accident in October 2013 that claimed the life of Sean Edwards.
The ABC News Website includes a full transcript of the report. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-0...oroner/7143550 RIP Sean.... Last edited by spook; 9 Feb 2016 at 02:49. Reason: spelling |
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9 Feb 2016, 14:15 (Ref:3613368) | #2 | |
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Cromley: "With the margin Gareth has, he doesn't need to play for sheep stations" |
10 Feb 2016, 00:04 (Ref:3613514) | #3 | |||
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
10 Feb 2016, 00:13 (Ref:3613518) | #4 | |
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I don't understand your comment GTRMagic ?. A triple frown ?.
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If it is to be, it is up to US. The spook's ten most important two letter words. |
10 Feb 2016, 00:26 (Ref:3613523) | #5 | ||
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Pretty easily understood...
....a bloke lost his life doing something he was good at... there were a number of contributing factors to this event... and there is no definitive, outright answer.. No comfort for anyone, from the car owner, the car preparer, the driver's family, the injured driver, the circuit owner or anyone else in the process.. And no clear indication how something different might be put into place to stop it from happening again... |
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
10 Feb 2016, 01:20 (Ref:3613533) | #6 | |
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Thanks - totally agree.
Let's hope that Porsche pick up the ball and find some answers. I get the feeling the Coroner was left a little frustrated too. One witness at the inquest (and it is mentioned in the report) made a very valid point, that all the data gathered indicated it should have been a double fatality - the fact that it wasn't deserves further investigation in the hope that something can be learned from this tragic event. Maybe just a slight improvement in one area, may have saved Sean - we need to find that 0.01%, if that's all it takes. |
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If it is to be, it is up to US. The spook's ten most important two letter words. |
10 Feb 2016, 02:15 (Ref:3613540) | #7 | ||
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The coroner appears to concede that despite all the good intentions, you cannot possibly design track safety sufficient to cushion a speeding race-car that suffers a catastrophic brake failure.
Perhaps worn brakes, perhaps a tired driver at the limit of his concentration, perhaps a seat not rigid enough. Add some unknown mechanical failure and you have the "perfect storm' that caused a very sad, and it seems unpreventable incident. RIP Sean And best wishes for your recovery William. |
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10 Feb 2016, 11:20 (Ref:3613618) | #8 | ||
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But there are many issues that need more attention or should be subject to increased scrutiny:
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Cromley: "With the margin Gareth has, he doesn't need to play for sheep stations" |
10 Feb 2016, 22:56 (Ref:3613828) | #9 | |||
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
12 Feb 2016, 11:21 (Ref:3614171) | #10 | |
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CAMS did I think issue a statement saying they would study the Coroners Report.
I'm also sure Qld Raceway will implement anything they can within the current design licencing/permits. There is no doubt that the Sean Edwards Foundation will also absorb the report. Not much us mere mortals can do...... |
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12 Feb 2016, 15:21 (Ref:3614226) | #11 | ||
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"49. As to what did cause the vehicle’s inability to decelerate at that final turn, Mr Reindler offered two hypotheses:
i. The throttle butterfly was jammed open by some sort of obstruction (a nut or bolt even), which effectively means the vehicle was being braked and accelerated at the same time, preventing deceleration. ii. The ABS system was ‘tripped’ on, possibly by a loss of grip being detected by the ABS system, creating a very firm brake pedal and restricting the vehicle’s ability to decelerate. This could also explain the pumping seen on the brake pedal." I don't really understand point 1. I thought the Cup cars ran drive by wire, where the ECU will calculate requested torque and manipulate camshaft, ignition and injection timing and volume as well as throttle body position to deliver the requested torque. If the throttle body is stuck in position but the TPS is sending 0v then surely injection would be cut? Point 2 just sends shivers down my spine after what happened to Stewie in the R32. |
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12 Feb 2016, 15:57 (Ref:3614234) | #12 | ||
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Edit to the above - seems at least some of the 996s ran cable throttles
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12 Feb 2016, 20:21 (Ref:3614284) | #13 | ||
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Thanks for posting that. Although sad, it is a remarkably good read, thoughtfully presented and an interesting insight into the inquest process.
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12 Feb 2016, 20:36 (Ref:3614290) | #14 | ||
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Karl Reindler is a professional engineer?
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12 Feb 2016, 22:06 (Ref:3614317) | #15 | |
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Karl is a professional racing driver, with experience in racing/driving similar Porsche cars, as well as an instructor for advanced/race driving.
He was engaged by the Coroner as an expert witness to the Inquiry. |
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12 Feb 2016, 23:49 (Ref:3614333) | #16 | ||
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If the throttle was stuck open, i'd have thought the motec log would have shown that?
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13 Feb 2016, 01:38 (Ref:3614341) | #17 | |||
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A very interesting read. Thanks for the link |
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13 Feb 2016, 02:07 (Ref:3614342) | #18 | |
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The Motec Data was looked at (and it contains masses of data), but to analyse it in detail was beyond the scope of the Coronial Inquiry.
I believe that the Coroner eluded to that further analysis/investigation might indicate what may have caused the "loss of deceleration control". There are probably only a handful of people in the world with the knowledge/experience/expertise to unravel all the Motec Data in just the final 30 seconds - and they have to want to do it, or are free to do it !. |
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If it is to be, it is up to US. The spook's ten most important two letter words. |
13 Feb 2016, 12:12 (Ref:3614398) | #19 | ||
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14 Feb 2016, 01:41 (Ref:3614497) | #20 | |
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This is the bit that gets to me.
58 meters of gravel trap. Here follows the karting spec which was close to the original FIA spec (maybe somebody has access to the FIA specs?) and there is just no way that this car would have made it across it if it was properly prepared. (ii) A bed of gravel a minimum of two metres wide by 250mm deep set down 150mm into the existing surface level so as to produce a 100mm high leading edge. The stone to be used shall be either round river stone or clean crushed stone of a single size 5 – 10mm. On a regular basis, the surface of the trap is to be deeply raked up into ridges approximately 100mm deep and 200mm apart. A correct[ly] prepared gravel trap should be difficult to walk on. IMO, a gravel road leading to an immovable object does not constitute a "gravel trap". We keep seeing F1 and other cars driving across traps and out the other side, this could not happen in a properly prepared gravel trap! |
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14 Feb 2016, 03:11 (Ref:3614510) | #21 | |
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Flat-bottemed race cars are a little more tricky to arrest with a gravel trap if they're going in front-on.
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14 Feb 2016, 03:33 (Ref:3614514) | #22 | |||
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We see V8SC drive straight across large areas of gravel traps at times, hell, there are plenty of videos of cars and motorcycles driving across water with the right tyres, approach angle, speed and technique. |
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14 Feb 2016, 06:08 (Ref:3614538) | #23 | |
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I have never understood the reliance on gravel traps and the expectation that a flat bottomed, light, minimal height race car will be significantly slowed down when it gets into one. A flat bottom car will break through the surface and skate on the underfloor pan if it is heavy enough or if it is too light basically aquaplane on the four wheels for want of a better term because the large footprint of each tyre prevents it sinking into the gravel. In the old days with high ride heights and narrow tyres the car settled into the grave a long way and stayed there.
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14 Feb 2016, 09:55 (Ref:3614581) | #24 | |
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Gravel traps are designed to work under braking, and are there to arrest a car under loss of steering control, not brake failure.
There is no gravel trap on any circuit in the world that will arrest a car without brakes that leaves the racing surface at 85% of design speed or above. A rear engine, flat bottomed, large tyred race car that enter a gravel trap at high speed leaves very little trace in the gravel - ridges or no ridges. If you can't get the nose down and start the front wheels ploughing through the gravel, you cannot dissipate the energy of the moving car, and reduce it's speed. If you keep on the throttle, that can be enough to lift the front and make it possible to drive through the trap. If the car starts to yaw, the gravel will be more effective, but can sometimes lead to the car overturning. If the ridges are too high, the overturning risk is increased, too low and the car may simple "plane" across the surface. Remember that circuits are multi-user facilities - bikes do not like any ridges at all, and the physical differences between cars used on the circuit is enormous. You simply cannot afford the time or money to prepare gravel traps to suit each and every user on a day. In the accident in question here, at the speed recorded, there was less than 5 seconds from the loss of braking control to the impact with the wall. The FIA Spec is not like the Karting spec - it requires a smooth transition from the track & verge, 15mm rounded stone and be "overturned/scarified before each event". No mention of surface ridges at all. Last edited by spook; 14 Feb 2016 at 10:11. Reason: Spelling & FIA Data |
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14 Feb 2016, 10:38 (Ref:3614589) | #25 | |
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We've often seen drivers of varying experience, throw cars into a spin in similar situations, but I don't think this type of Porsche would have reacted in such a way.
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