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Old 7 Oct 2012, 12:15 (Ref:3147552)   #1
F1Pete
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F1Pete should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridF1Pete should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Nutcase Grosjean

Webber refers to him as a nut case. Is this latest incident a nutcase move or just bad luck case of driver error? I see Grosjean as a genuine nice guy not trying to drive like a "nutcase". Mistakes can happen to anyone, but I really do feel sorry for the guy. I don't see him as an incompetent driver. Is a 10 second stop and go penalty enough?? Some don't think so.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 13:00 (Ref:3147560)   #2
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he's frustrating, isn't he? his pace is keeping kimi honest, yet his judgement on track is pants. banning people doesn't fix things, but i don't know what does. i think he deserves another half season next year and if he can't sort it out and learn not to drive into people it's time to send him to sportscars where he can learn to handle traffic and try and earn the right to a f1 drive again.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 13:08 (Ref:3147562)   #3
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He's one of these fast, young but erratic rookies that appear in F1 cycles and who ruffle the feathers of the elderly drivers that have to tolerate his impulse driving.

He is erratic and should be disciplined whenever he does something dumb and dangerous but I wouldn't overstress things by describing him as a 'nutcase'. Young and dumb might give way to older and wiser. I just hope his maturity will occur sooner rather than later.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 13:28 (Ref:3147565)   #4
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Hawkwood should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHawkwood should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Lots of discussion over on PlanetF1's forum at the moment on Grosjean, some comparing him to Maldonado.
Some of it was good, some was guff, but I found an interesting take on the two of them which I think is pretty accurate:

"most of Maldonado's accidents had to deal with his lack of patience and 'road rage', which are fairly easy to prevent with a cooler head. For Grosjean, he simply seems to be missing the instinct or awareness to race with several other cars close by. I really don't know how you'd go about fixing that."

Anyone else agree with this? Disagree?
Would, as Bella suggested, sportcars be the best place for him to learn some spacial awareness?
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 13:42 (Ref:3147573)   #5
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Flavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFlavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFlavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I just think he's another semi talented but well connected rich kid promoted to the level of his incompetence.

His super-licence should be rescinded forthwith and he should return to his Geneva bank where he can bump into people at a slower speed. He is ruining a rather exciting season and costing other teams a lot of money and points.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 13:56 (Ref:3147577)   #6
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semi talented? lawd....

i think both him and maldonado aren't going to learn, but for different reasons. it's not about spacial awareness at all with grosjean i don't think. it's anticipation. if you look at the really good racers, they've all had rashes of errors but they've learnt when to go "it's not worth it" and hold off. hamilton is a superb example of someone who learnt from his errors. i think that by the end of the season we'll be able to see that grosjean hasn't learnt and that he doesn't have the maturity to ask for help either.

oh well. he can't really complain that he hasn't had a fair crack at the f1 whip can he?
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 14:02 (Ref:3147579)   #7
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.....if he can't sort it out and learn not to drive into people it's time to send him to sportscars where he can learn to handle traffic and try and earn the right to a f1 drive again.
We don't want him thanks....
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 14:10 (Ref:3147582)   #8
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oh go on. think of it as an act of charity. come to think of it, we've given you some real quality talents the past few years and what have you give us in return? squat.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 14:21 (Ref:3147588)   #9
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
"we" have to laugh

He will end up there, as he is French, and all French drivers end up driving sportscars, as that is all that matters in France, one race.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 14:27 (Ref:3147594)   #10
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semi talented? lawd....

i think both him and maldonado aren't going to learn, but for different reasons. it's not about spacial awareness at all with grosjean i don't think. it's anticipation. if you look at the really good racers, they've all had rashes of errors but they've learnt when to go "it's not worth it" and hold off. hamilton is a superb example of someone who learnt from his errors. i think that by the end of the season we'll be able to see that grosjean hasn't learnt and that he doesn't have the maturity to ask for help either.

oh well. he can't really complain that he hasn't had a fair crack at the f1 whip can he?
Maybe some time spent with Rob Wilson would help him ?
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 15:04 (Ref:3147613)   #11
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Even an average road-car driver reacts when he see something in front of him/her that shouldn't be there - it's a natural instinct. Grosjean appears to be really late to react to incidents, which is worrying for someone driving at this level of the sport.

BTW, how's Chavez doing in the Venezuelan elections? When are the results going to be known, and will this new guy be interested in backing Pastor? Could be back to home for the boy.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 15:08 (Ref:3147615)   #12
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"we" have to laugh

He will end up there, as he is French, and all French drivers end up driving sportscars, as that is all that matters in France, one race.
For much of the world actually. I don't sleep through that one - I slept through most of the highlights of today's race...... I probably ought to be grateful for those who showed lack of judgment at the start - it was really the only excitement of the whole race. But RG, deary me. as DC said, he will be sent to Coventry eventually - or banned for longer and longer periods.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 15:12 (Ref:3147618)   #13
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CTD posted a quote from Mr Le Mans on the Japanese GP thread:

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Tom Kristensen explained why Grojean got the 10sec S&G, with the reason that FIA is getting worried about the "playstation generation" who spends more time in a simulator than in the actual car, and therefor lacks the respect of the older generation.
Something I find understandable seeing Grojeans accidents this year!
With the FIA sticking to the in season testing farce, how precisely is a young driver to garner experience without a simulator?
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 15:19 (Ref:3147622)   #14
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In the lower formulae......
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 15:19 (Ref:3147623)   #15
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oh go on. think of it as an act of charity. come to think of it, we've given you some real quality talents the past few years and what have you give us in return? squat.
Oh all right.

Can't we swap him for Bianchi?
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 15:20 (Ref:3147624)   #16
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beau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbeau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbeau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
He's got the same problem that Hamilton had a couple of seasons ago, the difference is that whilst Hamilton would go through patches of hitting people poor Grosjean seems to do it at every race.

As previously mentioned, it is particularly annoying in Grosjean's case as he is pretty quick compared with Kimi. He seemed pretty emotional after the race, I've got a feeling that he's been told that if it happens any more then he'll be out of the sport for good.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 15:37 (Ref:3147639)   #17
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BTW, how's Chavez doing in the Venezuelan elections? When are the results going to be known, and will this new guy be interested in backing Pastor? Could be back to home for the boy.
lol. that's like asking how a one horse race is going to finish.

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Maybe some time spent with Rob Wilson would help him ?
correct me if i'm wrong but i was under the impression that he was more a driving techniques specialist? he's spent a lot of time with bruno senna, and bruno can't quite get this not driving into people thing sorted either it needs to be someone like that though, someone who knows their diffuser from the elbow.

you see it in single seaters a lot - young ridiculously quick driver doesn't want or know how to listen to outside advice. sometimes it's from engineers, other times it's just anyone. they're quick, they're winning, they must be doing it right. it's only when they're not quick and winning that they don't know how to handle themselves and work out who to listen to for advice and encouragement.

incidentally, it's relatively easy to just have an unoffical ban - you're only welcome in a sport if someone's willing to employ you.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 15:43 (Ref:3147644)   #18
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He seemed pretty emotional after the race, I've got a feeling that he's been told that if it happens any more then he'll be out of the sport for good.
I havnt seen a stop and go for ages, so that was rather telling too. I actually -not being too familiar with the rule book- thought a race ban automatically comes with a probation period too and expected a black flag quite frankly.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 15:56 (Ref:3147651)   #19
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"most of Maldonado's accidents had to deal with his lack of patience and 'road rage', which are fairly easy to prevent with a cooler head. For Grosjean, he simply seems to be missing the instinct or awareness to race with several other cars close by. I really don't know how you'd go about fixing that."
Thats a bang-on comment actually. Maldonado is a bit of a mischievous one while Grosjean is just unaware in Delaware, more of a likeable blunderer but thats a way harder fix!

Maldonado could seemingly get his act together, delivers (over achieves even) on Saturdays and plays the role of the invisible man on Sundays. Grosjean just comes across as someone who cant help it, and if its so, as heartbreaking it is, he has to go. With lives at stake, you dont want the "special" kid running around with scissors.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 16:43 (Ref:3147684)   #20
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Grosjean has provided some of this season's best entertainment.
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Old 7 Oct 2012, 21:41 (Ref:3147868)   #21
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Webber is 100% correct ... incidents in almost every race - he's an idiot
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Old 8 Oct 2012, 08:16 (Ref:3148031)   #22
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Renault management should just tell him to not try so hard for a few races. You know, like in cricket, when you keep getting out, always playing shots when you don't have to? Even of he concedes a positon or two, just get a few solid, clean races under the belt, and take it from there. He most of the incidents been his fault?

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Webber refers to him as a nut case.
Geez, you know you're going bad, when a notorious front wing breaker, is having a go at you.
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Old 8 Oct 2012, 08:51 (Ref:3148051)   #23
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On reflection I think I've been a little mean to Grosjean.

Clearly a career in NASCAR beckons, but the last race I saw last night produced a performance from an ill advised defensive move by Tony Stewart even Roman would find hard to beat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETgSxL8-WQc
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Old 8 Oct 2012, 10:31 (Ref:3148119)   #24
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I think the extent of the criticism of Grosjean is somewhat unjustified.

He had been involved in a lot of incidents prior to Spa but many weren't his fault. It's noteworthy that he had no penalties for driving misdemeanours prior to that race.

I also thought in the Suzuka incident, Webber looked slow at the apex and it caught Romain out. The stewards must have used the data and determined he was mostly at fault, but still.
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Old 8 Oct 2012, 10:45 (Ref:3148128)   #25
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I suspect something like a suspended multirace ban might be an appropriate sanction for Grojean if he does not get his act in order.
If he can get his first laps in order I think Grosjean could be a name at the head of the field for a long time.
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