What are the best supported classes ............

[Greg Cozier]

in UK Saloon and Sports car historic racing?

[andy97]

First of all define what you mean by "historic"! Pre 66' pre 81, pre 93?

Then define whether you think cars should be homologated to the same spec as when they were "original" or whether some series that allow some updated components are included?

Then tell me whether "recreations" or "continuation cars" are to be considered?

How big a can of worms do you want to open? But we do need some criteria before any of us can attempt to anser the question. Sorry.

[morninggents]

Anything pre-66 is popular here.
How is the proposed Barbados race going?

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Anything pre-66 is popular here.
How is the proposed Barbados race going?

Considering viability now.

Regarding the other questions, I'd propose:

Pre-1968 Gp1 Touring Cars
1968 - 1974 Gp2 Touring Cars
1975 - 1981 Gp2/4 Touring Cars

And some kind of sportscar class, maybe pre-68? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM8Jz-Zhq5w

[Bruce Chambers]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

Considering viability now.

Regarding the other questions, I'd propose:

Pre-1968 Gp1 Touring Cars
1968 - 1974 Gp2 Touring Cars
1975 - 1981 Gp2/4 Touring Cars

And some kind of sportscar class, maybe pre-68? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM8Jz-Zhq5w

Some of the best supported racing in Europe is for Pre '66 GT cars, worth considering Greg?

[dikko]

You might be surprised at how many Historic Formula Fords you get if invited...

here for action...http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWZE...ZW81zXA/videos

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by Bruce Chambers

Some of the best supported racing in Europe is for Pre '66 GT cars, worth considering Greg?

Certainly, more so than sports cars. Any reason why pre-66 and not pre-68?

GC

[Moosehead]

Because in the historic world nothing happened after 1966 (or least thats what they think)

[Bruce Chambers]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

Certainly, more so than sports cars. Any reason why pre-66 and not pre-68?

GC

Because in Europe FIA sanctioned historic motorsport defines the age breaks for GT Cars as :
Period F: 1/1/1962 - 31/12/1965
Period G1: 1/1/1966 - 31/12/1969
Period G2: 1/1/1970 - 21/12/1971

So the majority of European cars are built to the specifications allowable within these year breaks.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by Bruce Chambers

Because in Europe FIA sanctioned historic motorsport defines the age breaks for GT Cars as :
Period F: 1/1/1962 - 31/12/1965
Period G1: 1/1/1966 - 31/12/1969
Period G2: 1/1/1970 - 21/12/1971

So the majority of European cars are built to the specifications allowable within these year breaks.

I understand. In saloons the game-changer was the Escort chassis in 68 (with FVA then Twink in 69) and then the BDA engine in 70.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

Considering viability now.

Presumably for 2015? Any proposed dates yet?

[Greg Cozier]

Would the following agenda be attractive at US$6,000 including car shipping, two return flights from London, double hotel room for 12 nights?

Thursday - arrive at airport, meet & greet hotel bar
Friday - scrutiny and welcome party.
Saturday - track practice
Sunday - four runs up 5 Km hillclimb
Monday to Thursday - social activities
Friday - track practice
Saturday - qualifying
Sunday - three ten lap races, prize-giving after.
Monday - pack up cars
Tuesday - fly home.

[Bruce Chambers]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

Would the following agenda be attractive at US$6,000 including car shipping, two return flights from London, double hotel room for 12 nights?

Thursday - arrive at airport, meet & greet hotel bar
Friday - scrutiny and welcome party.
Saturday - track practice
Sunday - four runs up 5 Km hillclimb
Monday to Thursday - social activities
Friday - track practice
Saturday - qualifying
Sunday - three ten lap races, prize-giving after.
Monday - pack up cars
Tuesday - fly home.

I should say!

[Moosehead]

I'd be up for it depending on when in the year - between November and March would be ok as it wouldn't impact too much on the domestic calendar.
Would also need some notice to save the pennies, so if you was looking at winter 2015/2016 then yes I'd be in.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

I'd be up for it depending on when in the year - between November and March would be ok as it wouldn't impact too much on the domestic calendar.
Would also need some notice to save the pennies, so if you was looking at winter 2015/2016 then yes I'd be in.

Looking at beginning of October. Prices for rooms and flights are much higher in winter for obvious reasons. Just enough time to re-prep car after Goodwood.

[dikko]

Not a big reception from my wife, probably because it is more racing continuing the end of the season - maybe better January-ish - and as we like adventure hols there is more than half a chance we may run out of Island..!?

However if that is the offer I shall poll our Historic Formula Ford boys and see what their response is.
How many needed for a grid?
Any chance to have an idea of the track layout yet?
Quality of marshals important too (Brits?)..

Hope all your plans come to fruition and are succesful.
Rgds to Mr Mclaughlin, does he wear a hat with ostrich feathers yet?

[Alan Crook]

Originally Posted by dikko

Any chance to have an idea of the track layout yet?
Quality of marshals important too (Brits?)..

Hope all your plans come to fruition and are succesful.
Rgds to Mr Mclaughlin, does he wear a hat with ostrich feathers yet?

Dick, I think you are getting muddled between Bahamas & Barbados, not surprising for a man of your age !!!!!

However we would love to be asked to go and marshal in Barbados.

[dikko]

OOOppss Alan! Yes I am, oh gosh, two exotic island races - that would be rather good too. I think they may be a bit further apart than is good for us though.

Not too sure of my islands in that region it seems. They are a bit past the Scillys I DO know....

Not wanting to divert the attention from the present thread - how's it coming along with the other show? Track built yet?

[Alan Crook]

Circuit of the Bahamas is now not due to host a race until 2016. Not started to be built yet and I believe actual location not yet finalised. Jean Todt visited Bahamas about a month ago and met ministers and others.

[Colin McKay]

Greg, this sort of expedition will inevitably involve bringing along the Team Financial Director for most of us, so how about an optional extension for what they would term 'proper holiday'?

[Moosehead]

Yeah, an extra few days would certainly help. When we did Daytona in '07 we stayed on for a few days after the event which meant the trip qualified as a holiday rather than just a racing event and that most definitely helped in the 'financial department'.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Greg, this sort of expedition will inevitably involve bringing along the Team Financial Director for most of us, so how about an optional extension for what they would term 'proper holiday'?

Point noted but that is what the week in-between is for. Unless you break your car there will be nothing to do other than Caribbean beach holiday stuff from Monday to Thursday. The format has been the same for the Barbados Rally Carnival since 2001 and, even with pacenotes to do, the idle time was plenty for beach days, cruises, island tours etc.

Having said that, there is nothing stopping us from changing flight dates and extending hotel bookings on an as-needed basis.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by dikko

maybe better January-ish

I shall poll our Historic Formula Ford boys and see what their response is.
How many needed for a grid?

Any chance to have an idea of the track layout yet?

No chance in January, December to April is mucho expensive to fly and stay here.

10 would be enough.

Bushy Park Circuit https://www.facebook.com/BushyParkCircuit

[Greg Cozier]

It has been asked what kind of historic regs we use here, probably good to mention it now.

1. FIA period homologation or current HTP is not required.
2. Period proof of modifications on the specific model is not required.
3. Car must have been commercially available to anyone in period. Proof may be used car guide, used car advert, period new car advert, production brochure etc.
4. Modification guide is the FIA yellow book in period, interpreted in any way, using period parts and technology. No-one is going to argue about rear axle links on Gp2 saloons, in period they were all free.
5. If a car is using a non-period part due to lack of availability than exemptions will be granted if there is no performance advantage to the non-period part.

So, competitors should be ready at scrutiny to prove: car was available for general sale in period, parts were available in period, modifications match period FIA Yellow Book.

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

It has been asked what kind of historic regs we use here, probably good to mention it now.

1. FIA period homologation or current HTP is not required.
2. Period proof of modifications on the specific model is not required.
3. Car must have been commercially available to anyone in period. Proof may be used car guide, used car advert, period new car advert, production brochure etc.
4. Modification guide is the FIA yellow book in period, interpreted in any way, using period parts and technology. No-one is going to argue about rear axle links on Gp2 saloons, in period they were all free.
5. If a car is using a non-period part due to lack of availability than exemptions will be granted if there is no performance advantage to the non-period part.

So, competitors should be ready at scrutiny to prove: car was available for general sale in period, parts were available in period, modifications match period FIA Yellow Book.

Thats me out then.