2015 BTRDA Clubmans Rallycross Championship

[truelove647]

👍👍👍2015👀❤️🚗

[AlamakiRX]

2015 Autosport International BTRDA Clubmans Rallycross Championship

*Autosport International 8th-11th January NEC (live arena & static display).
8 2wd cars will be racing in the "live arena"
3 car static display on the BTRDA stand

* February 22nd non msa test day Blyton Circuit.

R1 March 8th Blyton Circuit (2wd)
R2 June 6th Pembrey Circuit (2wd & 4wd)
R3 June 7th Pembrey Circuit (2wd & 4wd)
R4 September 19th Pembrey Circuit (2wd & 4wd)
R5 September 20th Pembrey Circuit (2wd & 4wd)
R6 October 18th Blyton Circuit (2wd)
R7 November 15th Croft Circuit (2wd & 4wd)

6 events from 7 to count.

Same class structure as 2014 check out the following for more information;

www.clubmansrallycross.weebly.com
www.btrda.com

[Janneman]

Why look at folkrace in Scandinavia?
Across the canal you find Belgium where they have folkrace too.

A decent build car you can buy at 1500 Euro's, a full weekend has a 125 Euro entry fee.

For instance my 'old' standard car was used by some nephews and my wife for more than 10 years. Running costs on the car almost zero. Every year 4 second hand race tyres for 25 Euro a piece and that's it. And offcourse the fun you have driving it!

But what counts for England also counts for Holland. Low entry's, every year less drivers but why not pick up what is a huge succes in Belgium?

[chunder]

I agree Janneman

Snobbery mainly

Using largely standard cars that look a bit beaten up is not our governing bodies ides of proper motorsport.

Their loss in reality as rrallycross is struggling to keeps its head above water with fewer and fewer venues, clubs, drivers and bickering cretins who think not of the sport but of themselves only to its detriment.

Long been the case over here sadly/.

[leonidas]

I agree about folkrace. In fact I think I posted on here about five years ago about folkrace..!

There is no practical reason why it couldn't happen. Some of the possible venues already exist - many of those being used for autograss or autocross would be suitable with a bit of work.

I don't really blame rallycross organisers. The problem with British motorsport generally is a chronic lack of leadership and deep conservatism at the MSA. The country that once dominated rallying now doesn't even have a national championship! It is a disgrace. We have to pay money to these MSA jokers every year but have no say on how the show is run.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Janneman

But what counts for England also counts for Holland. Low entry's, every year less drivers but why not pick up what is a huge succes in Belgium?

Because Holland has autocross?

[RobScott]

Chunder, you seem to do a lot of complaining about the state of rallycross in the UK..... but I fail to see you racing??? If you've ever raced that is? Where's your support?

[furby]

Mr chunder, I have read lots of you comments, some good lots bad, do you come on here just to wind people up ? Some of your comments are just bloody ridiculous! Rallycross in Britain has had a tough time and does not need people like you bleeting about how good the folk race is in Scandinavia and that we should have this, our circuits cost a fortune to hire as they are run by company's and not elks ! I don't come on here that often but you always seem to have something to complain about, we ain't never gunna have the rallycross Grand Prix of 1982/83/84 etc back, that boat has sailed, look to the future, 2015, Kev,Ollie, Julian, flaherty, mad mark, grant, Horton, mundy, Harris, anson, not looking that bad is it ? Look forward to your negative reply !

[chunder]

Mr cuddly toy

I have been on here for quite a while as you might know, have weathered the storm of many arguments about british rallycross.

My points about rallycross now are not ones of simply being negative. They are based on fact, experience and knowledge. You may not like them, but you do not have to read them. You can do what plenty do and shoot me down, moan about me, leave negative feedback.

But none of that changes the fact that British rallycross has never been the same since the Stott/BRC split years ago. It destroyed the sport in this country to a large extent, and the grievances still stand now. We lost drivers, classes, commentators, tracks, Ireland. I told you all so back then and was annhialated for being negative. But was proved correct largely. I don't like it, but it is fact.

Now, you might think all is great. I for one think the BRC should be scrapped completely. Run only a clubmans series. Forget Lydden, if they want to be all hoity toity, let them. WRX is not going to last forever, and they are paying a premium for it.

The future you say? Ollie O donovan, Watson, Godfrey? Even when I watched the future was not full of young men. Gollop, Carnegie, Moloney, Holfeld! Supercars has been about rich guys with toys for decades, thats isnt the breeding ground. Entry level is, how many guys have come in recently and disappeared again? Tens, maybe hundreds.

The young men were way back when, Ian Evans, Nick Jones, Michael Shield, Rennison, Russ Spink, John Milner. All of them left for bigger things. Its what we do as a series sadly! Its never been big enough to keep it stars. Not sicne the 70's and 80's.

Supercars are not the answer. Anyone with any sense and a supercar these days with a half decent budget would have done European rallycross, Procter, Doran, Scott, Bell. That is now blocked by the WRX nonsense, so the European series might get bigger and take over when WRX runs its inevitable imploding course.

For those left like Mundy, Anson, Grant etc etc. BTRDA is fine surely. Pulls a crowd in, gives the club cars something to aspire to, and they get cheaper entries as its Club B.

In all honesty saying Scandinavian tracks are run by elks is either an a poor attempt at humour or very. very poor taste. Yes, they have different conditions and a different approach, but it works, and has worked for decades. Our model worked for about 8 years then died on its bum.

I for one applaud some ideas here, bringing along an auto/rallycross hybrid, entry level supercar. Top Gear hasn't made our sport great has it? If that doesn't work what will? They had it right, that was basically folkrace. But it hasn't caught on, hasnt been pushed enough?

As for Mr Rob Scott, if i could afford to race I would race abroad. MSA licencing, entry fees are pathetic. Too high, designed to fund the organisation not get you racing. When you consider this weekend I could race a quad bike all day for 40 quid, is it no surprise that end of the market is picking up and properly governed even club motorsport is struggling. It's too pricey, at least in other countries you can race relatively cheaply. You can here too, just not in MSA sports.

As for the future. We know rallycross is only going to survive if existing tracks allow us to run. It is why the BRC stance over Lydden is such a joke. That leaves us with tracks at the extremeties of the country, Croft, Knockhill and Pembrey. and also Blyton with its restrictions. That doesn't help in creating rich driver base.

That isn't helping, but you cannot hide from the fact that back in the day it was the same, Croft one end, Lydden and Brands the other. What's changed so much? People don't want to do rallycross anymore, that is what has changed, sorry.

I would do folkrace in Sweden/Norway. Simple as that, why? Coz I would live somewhere where I could store my car on my land (not in a 15 quid a week garage and another for a trailer), I would not have to use a track where Mr Palmer wanted it perfectly clean the next day so his 300 quid a day track day could make him back the money his race meetings lose, I could do this because my country is not congested, noise obssessed and because my governing body wants me to race something, not pay 50 blokes pensions. I could also take my quad bike out into the desert and ride it! I could do that in Spain, America, Scandinavia! Sadly I cant do that here.

I love rallycross, I love the old days I admit. Modern rallycross has good points. But for it to grow it needs help from the MSA and it needs venues.

For me, scrap BRC series. Allow entry level supercars. Somehow find a way to use a car from a series that is struggling and has a surplus of cheap cars available. Flood the market. Retro has potential, and is doing more work in promotion than BRC and Stott did for years. Its not just about tv, noone wants to watch 2 cars running around Blyton in the wet, be honest!

[leonidas]

This must be one of the few motorsports where drivers gang up on fans to have a go at them. I don't know chunder but I don't see why he is not allowed to comment just because he is not a current competitor. It says everything about the state of British rallycross that some drivers not only ignore the views of fans but are openly contemptuous of them.

I am an MSA licence holder, rally competitor and have followed rallycross as a spectator for many years. Frankly one of the things that has kept me out of rallycross as a competitor is the feeling it is a closed shop run for the benefit of a small number of people.

Rallycross/folkrace/autocross doesn't have to go to expensive circuits. Nor does it have to have car age limits. Nor does it have to be run for the benefit of commercial interests who sell Suzuki Swifts or RX buggies. These are all decisions that have been taken by organisers - the result is the disastrous state of the sport in the UK as it is now.

The first step forward is to be a bit more open minded and look at new ideas from fans and drivers - not just ignore them.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by leonidas

This must be one of the few motorsports where drivers gang up on fans to have a go at them. I don't know chunder but I don't see why he is not allowed to comment just because he is not a current competitor. .

I hardly think two people reacting to a post could be constituted as ganging up on someone. Sure everyone is entitled to their views but it works both ways. There are ways of putting things and if you choose to do so in a manor that comes across as nine out of ten times having a dig and antagonistic, then you've got to expect a reaction. It doesn't make either party right. The last post from Chunder was more measured as it happens.

Its something I'm increasingly seeing creeping into this forum and I am starting to question whether to bother posting anymore as most threads seem to constantly descend into a bun fight in less than a page or two. I have to say the rallying and rallycross section is one of the better areas of the forum for this but some of the sports car and touring car threads are just constant arguments.

Its quiet unsettling when someone has a go at you and something that concerns me greatly with the internet in general, particularly as my daughter gets older and no doubt starts using the net. People can get quite un pleasant when hiding behind anonymous user names and say things they wouldn't dare to someone's face. Just to qualify that last sentence does not apply to this thread or the forum in general and is a general comment on the internet, before anyone gets the wrong end of the stick!

[chunder]

I have been posting the same way on this forum for many years and am not going to change.

Until recently, it was a decent portal for all motorsport;.

Now it is simply a place where Le Mans, sports car and a few historic fans hang out, talk abotu next years race the day after this years etc etc. And largely ignore everything else.

The rest of it is largely dormant in comparison to those areas.

Not quite sure why this has happened. But sadly that is the state of this forum now.

[AlamakiRX]

All

Can we please get back on topic this thread was for the 2015 BTRDA Clubmans Rallycross Championship which is the entry level into rallycross in the UK, then drivers can move up to the British Championship.

The Championship has had a fantastic 2014 and 2015 will be bigger and better

50% of those racing came into the sport on the back of the top gear programme and are new to motorsport and rallycross so it can't be that bad, over 70 registered drivers this year which is fantastic.

Great entry level, affordable and classes to suit all

Let's get back on topic, STOP slagging off the sport and all what people have worked hard to achieve.

[chunder]

Fella

It is clear you are involved with the BTRDA seriers as most posts about the championship are started or involve you at some point.

If you want to do PR for the BTRDA championship then there are platy of outlets. This is not a good one as hardly anyone comes here anymore. You might be beter sneding stuff to the bigger rallycross sites or news feeds?

This is a discussion forum, and some of us have been discussing things, not simply posting PR blurb.

No one is having a go at individuals, I appreciate what is being done, but that doesn't stop us having a frank and open discussion about the state of things.

[leonidas]

@AlamakiRX

I don't have a problem with you guys posting PR but, yes, this board is about discussion. If you are going come on here why not engage with the positive suggestions people are making - such as running a joint autocross/rallycross championship or developing a 'ladder' from autocross to rallycross as there was in the past. If you think it is a rubbish idea then fair enough but just coming on and saying everything is wonderful isn't very convincing. As it happens I think the BTRDA group has done really well to get this series on so all credit to you - but we all know a lot more work is required to build the sport up again.

[AndyS]

Alamaki is right in that the thread is about the 2015 Btrda Championship, not the state of British rallycross, which yet again a thread has disolved into. Can I suggest the relevant posts are moved into a seperate thread, where those who want to debate/moan/whinge or whatever can get on with it.

[RobScott]

Chunder if you think things should change, why not help us out? step up and show is some support.
You keep going on about how great other countries are... why don't you go then?
Its easy to talk... but give us some help rather than saying how it 'should be'

[Greg Cozier]

We're planning an International RallyCross in Barbados in November next year but it seems to clash with the last round.

[chunder]

I am not interested enough to help being blunt.

I have done stuff like that before in the past and not got much out of it I am afraid. People just taking more for less. It is the way of club motorsport. I would compete but frankly can find far better value for money elsewhere if I had the space to keep said vehicle and trailer.

Let's face it, this is just a forum viewed by perhaps a few people. It doesn't really impact the sport or anything else.

You are just the next person in line who has a pop, I do not mind that, it is the nature of the beast, In your mind you are right, in my mind it is the same as saying you can't criticise a driver, ever unless you have done it yourself. We would always differ I think. So let's just leave it at that.

I applaud the people who put the effort in. The marshals. But I do not ever want to do it. I tried it a few times and it was the most miserable experience of my motorsport life!

Doesn't mean I can't then pass comment or offer some thoughts.

There must be british and BTRDA pages you can do all that happy smiley stuff on?

[silver bullet]

Here is a message to the people who are being accused of being negative and critical.
why don't you approach the people who organise rallycross in the uk and offer them your help and suggestions.

it may do more good than constantly posting the same things on a public forum, which is to all intense and purposes just a talking shop.


I keep reading the same things over and over again, how many times has folkrace been mentioned in the last ten years, folkrace is not the answer.
yes we all know that cost is a huge thing, and that folkrace is cheap, but why is that?
The one thing that keeps the costs high in this country is not the MSA, it is not the organisers, it is not even insurance. It is circuit hire.
If you want to run folkrace in this country you need to find new non race circuit venues, and that is very hard to do believe me. Many people have put in many hours, and thousands of miles over the last two or three years looking for suitable, willing venues.
This is maybe where the critics may be able to help. If you know of anywhere near you, move out from behind your keyboards and go have a word with the owners, see if they may be interested.


We the drivers love our sport, and we are doing our best to try to promote it, so don't be surprised if we get a bit wound up at constant criticism. Constructive criticism is good and always welcome, but just picking over the same old points over and over again, on an internet forum does no good at all.
Speak to the people involved directly, offer help or solutions, just stop harking back to the good old days, there were problems then too, and stop looking at what is done in other countries, they have different rules, regs, and criteria to stick to.
Think about what can be done here in the UK where restrictions are tighter.

Anyway




So lets get back on topic.
Let's be positive.
The Clubmans Championship is looking good this year, three different organising clubs, three different venues, and a nice spread of dates.
Some new drivers, loads of returning drivers, some after a several year gap, so it is all looking very good.
For me it would be perfect if we had one more round, and were paying a visit to Lydden Hill, but that is not to be so never mind.

Personally 2015 has to be a better year than 2014.
Clutch failure at the first round at Blyton
Rolled at the Knockhill MSA event.
Prop shaft bearing failed loading up for Pembrey
Lost forth gear at Croft GP

2015 is going to be a better year, I am determined of that.

[Greg Cozier]

What would a UK circuit cost to hire for a 2-day rallycross event?

GC

[RobScott]

I don't know about rallycross circuits, but when we hire oulton park for a one day stage rally, its around £6k


2014 was an awesome year for the BTRDA Championship. in 2013 it looked like it could fail, but this year has been amazing! 2015 is sure to be even better!!

And Dave, I hope you have better luck next year, its like everything was against you..... it had to be if I beat you at Blyton! ha ha

[chunder]

I guess as a non driving, organising fan I have absolutely no contribution to make then.

Thankyou and goodbye

Welcome fans to the BTRDA members only rallycross forum!

Dear Lord, gets more like historic section every day

[silver bullet]

Perhaps chunder if you actually read what people post, digest it, and accept that others hold a different view to yours you may get more out of these forums, and they may be the vibrant place that they onece were, as you say in your sig.

Maybe the constant negativity is what has put people off.

[chunder]

To be fair, I rarely post on here these days, of season it picks up a bit as there is nothing else to do!

Even the rallycross and bike section are nowhere near as busy as they used to be.

Sections of the forum have rapidly gained massive popularity, and it surely is no surprise that other areas have dropped off significantly. As the areas of motorsport concerned are so disparate and very few fans of that sort of racing are likely to be serius fans of endurance, V8 etc. A lot of it is to do with the fact its a largely Oz forum, a lot of it is to do with this place for some reason becoming a bastion of Le Mans type racing.

I post a bit on Autosport, a place you would think would lap all that up but it hardly gets a mention amazingly. Weird how one forum suddenly becomes an epicentre for something when it used to cover everything brilliantly.

If people could actually understand that just because you think everything is rosy, some folk don't, the place might actually have some serious discussion.

But as you say, actions speak louder than words, and this area is the best example of that I am afraid.