Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > North American Racing


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 19 Jan 2018, 21:15 (Ref:3793868)   #121
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 9,726
joeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
From Twitter (and another forum member)

https://twitter.com/mike_hedlund/sta...00310507716608
joeb is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2018, 21:17 (Ref:3793869)   #122
Mike Hedlund
Veteran
 
Mike Hedlund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
United States
Woodside, CA
Posts: 653
Mike Hedlund should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Hedlund should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Hedlund should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjvincent View Post
Let's look at Speed King Racing. SKR has been running a pair of Porsches in GT3 for a few seasons and everyone assumes they are sort of like the sort of factory team. In reality they are not. Just spend money in GT3 and do what the sanctioning body told him in the previous paragraph. So, Acme Motors has a new GT3 car and for this past season, they sent a guy to look and see which teams spend a boatload of money.

When 2017 comes to an end, Acme calls SKR and gives them this proposition. It's two new Acme GT3's for $400K. With those new Acmes, comes a massive container of spares free of charge. To take the deal, SKR will have to hire Joe Tanto Jr as he's part of the Acme driver development program and he also did all of the test driving on the GT3 model. Joe Tanto Jr. is paid by Acme but for him to not be a paid factory driver, he has a company called Driven, LLC. That's where the money goes to. SKR pays him $100/race for his services. For all anyone knows, Joe Tanto Jr is just a regular guy that is fast. Plus, Joe runs with that pro guy you paid in 2017, as for SKR team owner, you get that other pro and drive with him. That way it looks like crazy old white guy is just blowing his retirement.

Then SKR will need to hire Hans Gruber. Hans is some German guy that knows lots about the Acme GT3. Hans has a company called Die Hard LLC. That's where you, (SKR team owner) pays that $100/race consulting fee. In reality, Hans actually works for Acme but this is his "side" job.

Then there will be lots of testing and that's possible because of the money saved due to that container of free spares. Plus, even though the ACME engine is rated for 40 hours, you will need to send it in every 20hrs for "warranty" work. Plus, Hans takes the shocks every race and brings them back with 5 other pairs. Hans is so nice, he just rebuilds and gives you shocks for free. Hans and Joe never wear an Acme shirt, only SKR. That way, they are not factory.
Perfect.

-mike
Mike Hedlund is online now  
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2018, 22:11 (Ref:3793876)   #123
jjvincent
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 253
jjvincent should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
In 2018, Acme releases a cool video of the 2.0 in bare carbon. It looks so cool because bare carbon never gets old. This is the next version of the Acme that is set to go on sale in 2020 for the street. Acme really wants to go racing in 2019 with the 2.0 to use that as an R&D year. This way, when the 2.0 goes on sale in 2020, everyone will have a perfected and properly engineered GT3 car. That's just good business. With this, Acme needs some drivers that could be considered Platinum but if they are downgraded to Silver, that would make the Acme support and partnership with the sanction body seamless with no interruption.

The Acme 2.0 does it's year under this special rule for a factory team in 2019. Come 2020, the 2.0 is released to the general racing public. Problem is, nobody buys the 2.0. Only option is to have the 2019 team keep running but they will now be designated as non factory and thus everything is perfect.
jjvincent is offline  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:47 (Ref:3793933)   #124
Speed-King
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Wuerzburg,Germany
Posts: 6,973
Speed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeb View Post
From Twitter (and another forum member)

https://twitter.com/mike_hedlund/sta...00310507716608
OTOH there's this from Bimmerworld's James Clay, who claims that at least GT4 has brought a serious cost reduction for GS.
Quote:
We’ve been in GS before for one year in 2011, but the budget just got out of control very quickly,” Clay told Sportscar365.

“I think everyone in the field realized that and suddenly we went from ten BMWs to two or three BMWs.

“But with the new GT4 platform, both the development costs are controlled and the development cap as far as what we can spend.

“When I look at our ST program specifically, I have a development program that spends two to three hundred thousand dollars a year on driveline, and it doesn’t make a lot of sense when I can spend less money on a GS car.
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/ctscc/c...tep-in-racing/

I think I've read similar statements from Compass360's Karl Thomson (maybe even on this forum?) as well, so it doesn't seem like Clay doesn't know what he's talking about.



Gesendet von meinem SM-A320FL mit Tapatalk
Speed-King is online now  
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam.
Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:38 (Ref:3793976)   #125
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 9,726
joeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
OTOH there's this from Bimmerworld's James Clay, who claims that at least GT4 has brought a serious cost reduction for GS.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/ctscc/c...tep-in-racing/

I think I've read similar statements from Compass360's Karl Thomson (maybe even on this forum?) as well, so it doesn't seem like Clay doesn't know what he's talking about.



Gesendet von meinem SM-A320FL mit Tapatalk
That is good to hear that the lower classes are still costing less. I was wondering how GS costs compared to GT4.
joeb is online now  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:44 (Ref:3793980)   #126
Speed-King
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Wuerzburg,Germany
Posts: 6,973
Speed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeb View Post
That is good to hear that the lower classes are still costing less. I was wondering how GS costs compared to GT4.
Well, the jury really is still out on that question. Clay says one thing, but Mike's tweet (GT4 in PWC being more expensive than GT3 four years ago) suggests something else.
Speed-King is online now  
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam.
Quote
Old Yesterday, 14:35 (Ref:3793993)   #127
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 9,726
joeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famejoeb will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
Well, the jury really is still out on that question. Clay says one thing, but Mike's tweet (GT4 in PWC being more expensive than GT3 four years ago) suggests something else.
#of weekends and travel might play into the pwc vs imsa side of it as well for the gt4's
joeb is online now  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 16:27 (Ref:3794023)   #128
Speed-King
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Wuerzburg,Germany
Posts: 6,973
Speed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeb View Post
#of weekends and travel might play into the pwc vs imsa side of it as well for the gt4's
Naw, as I understand it, the GT3 vs GT4 numbers were all on the PWC side, with PWC GT3 also having caught up to Rolex GT from five years ago despite the much lower running time.

Gesendet von meinem SM-A320FL mit Tapatalk
Speed-King is online now  
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam.
Quote
Old Yesterday, 16:53 (Ref:3794029)   #129
broadrun96
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 3,564
broadrun96 is going for a new lap record!broadrun96 is going for a new lap record!broadrun96 is going for a new lap record!broadrun96 is going for a new lap record!broadrun96 is going for a new lap record!broadrun96 is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
Well, the jury really is still out on that question. Clay says one thing, but Mike's tweet (GT4 in PWC being more expensive than GT3 four years ago) suggests something else.
So you're comparing two different series, two different styles of car building, two different series management and their interference, and different running times. I'm thinking there really is nothing to compare between Mike's thoughts and James's. And it's not like James is new to the series, they've run BMWs a while now so I think he knows what it costs to run both his old and new programs.
broadrun96 is online now  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 17:02 (Ref:3794030)   #130
NaBUru38
Veteran
 
NaBUru38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Uruguay
Las Canteras, Uruguay
Posts: 7,251
NaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Last year, the IMSA Weathertech race at Road America had 35 cars.
This year, the 24H Daytona has 50 entries, and the Conti race has 43 entries..

Those grids are healthy. I don't see any reason why IMSA would change it.

If there were 22 entries, then IMSA would probably add a 911 Cup class, or a tubeframe GT class. But that's not the case.
NaBUru38 is offline  
__________________
"Show me a driver who didn’t make a handful of errors this year, and I’ll show you someone who wasn’t trying hard enough." - David Malsher
Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:25 (Ref:3794042)   #131
jjvincent
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 253
jjvincent should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
Well, the jury really is still out on that question. Clay says one thing, but Mike's tweet (GT4 in PWC being more expensive than GT3 four years ago) suggests something else.
James and Karl are vendors, Mike is a consumer. So, James and Karl have a product to sell and thus, they need to make it sound as good as can be. Mike purchases that product and he is just stating what he has bought and how much it costs over the years. As for the teams that are rental operations (i.e. C360 and BW) they will never release prices or ever tell you how much of an increase it is from year to year or from 5 years ago. As for Mike he knows because all he has to do is look at his bank statement.

Think of it this way. Imagine if Outback ran a series of ads telling you that they have an all new menu and items, it sounds like a trip to Outback is in order. If Outback advertised that they have all new menu and items plus we increased the cost of everything on the menu by 20%, I have a feeling that you might decide that you'll go to Longhorn instead.

As for James, he has a tractor trailer that holds two cars. One is a GS and the other is ST. The ST car has a freshness date on it of October 2018. After that, it's no good. Since BMW does not have a TCR car, the only other thing that can fill that void in the trailer is a 2nd GT4 BMW. This is because he sure can't run an Audi in TCR and think that will go perfectly well with Bimmerworld plastered down the side of it. He has all this year to talk up that GT4 car so he can rent it out.
jjvincent is offline  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:33 (Ref:3794044)   #132
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 13,138
TF110 has a real shot at the podium!TF110 has a real shot at the podium!TF110 has a real shot at the podium!TF110 has a real shot at the podium!
GT3 is as popular as ever and you have new manufacturers entering the class. It's sustainable as long as there's buyers for it. They could go a long way and make a GT convergence for GT3 and GTE and that would make a lot of cars/customers able to compete in Le Mans style racing. That imo has to be the way forward.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 23:08 (Ref:3794063)   #133
AJA
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10
AJA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Here is a random fact on just the tire budget of GS cars:
If I remember correctly in 2014, a set of tires for a GS car was about $1400-1500. Now it looks like its about $2000-2100. In that year we ran 10 race(we bailed after VIR) and 2 test events, we had used 75 sets between 2 cars. Stevenson as another example had used 65 sets for EACH car at the same point. I would guess tire use is up as well as the old tires lasted pretty damn long.

For PWC GTS, in 2015 we used 3 sets of tires at $2500 a set each weekend per car. Last year at St. pete we used 3 sets of new tires. This year, they are allowing you use up to 4 new sets, and 1 used set from previous weekend, per weekend. In my mind that is forcing you into an extra new set, as we would try to use 2 old sets to run start off a weekend. Now you don't need to use all 4 sets but if you want to be competitive, you have to. Most slicks from my experience start to loose speed the moment you leave the truck.

John V and myself were in it when entries were in the 80's, 90's and even over 100 cars. Even when the economy was way down. Now is the racing better with fewer cars? There are a lot less cautions for sure, however I think the level of competition has gone down. I'm hopeful it will rise up again to what it was, 31 GS cars looks good, hopefully it stays in the hi-20's for the season.
AJA is online now  
Quote
Old Today, 19:26 (Ref:3794146)   #134
Speed-King
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Wuerzburg,Germany
Posts: 6,973
Speed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
GT3 is as popular as ever
Yeah, no.

There were a lot more GT3 series ten years ago and even those that survived have often much smaller grids than some time back.


The following series all had 20+ GT3 cars at some point over the last ten years:

Belcar --> dead
FFSA GT --> dead, reborn with GT4
Spanish GT --> dead
British GT --> down to a dozen or so GT3s
PWC --> down to the high teens from almost 30
IMSA --> only a dozen or so full time GT3s

Granted, there are series such as Blancpain, ADAC GT or International GT Open which are doing fine (again), but overall it can't be denied that GT3 has taken a hit over the last few years.
Speed-King is online now  
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam.
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GTD/FIAGT3 Cars 2014 pederb Sportscar & GT Racing 156 27 Aug 2014 18:01
Should Ferrari be worried tomorrow? Mr V Formula One 27 18 May 2003 18:27
m8f (gtd) Mark Morrison Motorsport History 5 9 May 2003 07:30
should toyota be worried??? Mr V Formula One 36 10 Jan 2002 17:28
Should DC be worried?? Mr V Formula One 10 8 Jan 2002 17:17


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 22:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.