[BTCC] Rounds 7, 8, 9 & Test Day at Thruxton, 2017

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by mark_l

BMR were warned last winter by TOCA about being outspoken, so it might be that Plato can't say anything good so decides to say nothing.

There is that too. His previous rants were almost unbroadcastable.

[AdrianM]

I think it must be Plato's choice not to be interviewed. After all if you ask a 100 people to name a touring car driver those who actually know what you're talking about would almost certainly say Plato.

He's still too much of a draw for the series to ignore by choice.

[porsche962fan]

anyone willing to bet against Turkington leading the tables come summer break ?

[luckn002]

Motorbase and HARD were very dissapointing, Adam Morgan too I thought would be capable of at least a podium. I was suprised Chilton didn't make up a few more places.

Two podiums for Goff as well though I expected a win!

Hopefully the Subaru's are back at Oulton, should be more RWD friendly - although two RWD wins today at a FWD circuit.

Agree with Lloyd about Church - needs a tyre wall. Good job to get the car out - briefly - for R3 when Depper wasn't which didn't look as bad from the TV.

[MagicBoy]

Originally Posted by mark_l

BMR were warned last winter by TOCA about being outspoken, so it might be that Plato can't say anything good so decides to say nothing.

Pretty much that. The only quotes I've seen all season are in the Adrian Flux blog.

Still got no idea why JP is so far off the pace of Sutton though...

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by MagicBoy

Pretty much that. The only quotes I've seen all season are in the Adrian Flux blog.

Still got no idea why JP is so far off the pace of Sutton though...

Boost level figures are secret, TOCA gave the Subaru's an increase in that level this weekend, I believe. I don't know if that increase was across all the Levorgs or just certain cars.

At Donington Park, Sutton was excluded for being over the boost level, and allegedly, underweight. Maybe this was TOCA trying to help BMR by increasing the boost level and when Sutton qualified on pole TOCA realised they had gone too far with the increase and used this as an excuse to DQ Sutton. BMR are unable to complain too loudly in public as they had their knuckles rapped over the winter.

I wonder if TOCA are using Sutton's car as the test bed for adjusting the boost levels to get an acceptable performance increase with giving them too much of an advantage.

BMR share driver information across all their drivers so I find it hard to imagine that JP has not looked at Sutton's setup data to see if there could be a performance gain for him. Missing the Thruxton test must of hampered the team quite badly as they didn't race there last year, so would have little or no setup data ahead of this weekend.

It is in TOCA's interest to keep Subaru in the championship, but without upsetting the other teams too much. The other teams realise the value of having a manufacturer like Subaru in the championship and would want to bring the Levorgs further up the grid.

[luckn002]

...also three rounds in and all but 5 drivers have scored a point - shows how competitive this season is!

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by luckn002

...also three rounds in and all but 5 drivers have scored a point - shows how competitive this season is!

2 Subaru drivers have failed to score any points, JP only has 4 points while Sutton has 62 points.

I can't believe JP has become such a useless driver over the winter, granted he was taken out at Brands Hatch but if the car had qualified further up the field he wouldn't of been fighting with back markers.

[MagicBoy]

It crossed my mind that JPs lacking motivation.

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by MagicBoy

It crossed my mind that JPs lacking motivation.

I am sure his sponsors are paying him to make sure he doesn't lack motivation.

Money is an amazing motivator. It gets me out of bed on a Monday.

[S griffin]

Nasty shunt from Lloyd, agree with the drivers, there is no reason why they shouldn't put tyres in front of the barrier. Would be nice if we got a meeting without a red flag for once, it's happened four times now. R2 became an anti climax as a result

Well done on Matt for getting the 60th win and what a drive in R3 by him too

Eurotech again doing well, Goff is really banging in the results and Smith again didn't look too bad, until that unnecessary mistake in R3, as he did well to keep faster cars behind him in all three races

Sutton once again is showing his talent. He is getting it up into the top 10, whereas even Plato can't get into the top 20, which raises serious questions. But what it proves is one driver is not bigger that the series, as the racing up front hasn't suffered

BMW certainly seemed more suited in race trim, well done to Collard and also to Colin getting that 100th win

Tingram is again finding the balance of when to go for it and when not to, while Flash did very well considering he never had less than 66kg of ballast

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by mark_l

Boost level figures are secret, TOCA gave the Subaru's an increase in that level this weekend, I believe. I don't know if that increase was across all the Levorgs or just certain cars.

At Donington Park, Sutton was excluded for being over the boost level, and allegedly, underweight. Maybe this was TOCA trying to help BMR by increasing the boost level and when Sutton qualified on pole TOCA realised they had gone too far with the increase and used this as an excuse to DQ Sutton. BMR are unable to complain too loudly in public as they had their knuckles rapped over the winter.

I wonder if TOCA are using Sutton's car as the test bed for adjusting the boost levels to get an acceptable performance increase with giving them too much of an advantage.

I wonder how much it costs to run a trade stand at the next meeting. I want to set up a stall to sell BTCC-branded tin foil hats. This time next year, I'll be a millionaire.

[S griffin]

Can I just say well done to both Dunlop and ITV4. Dunlop for making sure there no tyre failures in any of the three races, which is a great achievement and ITV4 for their coverage of Billy

Also very consistent weekend from Moffat and Motorbase look back up there

[Alfisti]

Good to see Dan Lloyd walk away from that.

Church Corner, or more specifically the run off/ safety facilities are a disgrace. The pitiful change for this year amounts to a bad joke in my books. Does a driver have to be seriously hurt before this is dealt with? I still shudder thinking of Simon Belcher and Ollie Jackson's shunts the other year.

If I ran the show Thruxton would not be on the calendar, that is how strongly I feel about it.

On other matters the Subaru (except Ash Sutton) and both MGs were pathetic; I am convinced there is zero money in the kitty - otherwise they would have ran the test session the other week. I predict BMR & 888 finances unravelling very soon; can't see Dan Lloyds car being "right" after today so there is another pot of cash needed...

[psq43]

To be honest, the rubble and barrier at church haven't really made it safer. Just made a large accident into a larger one.

I wonder, if they'd just removed the tree's, filled in the ditch, and let the grass grow, would that not be safer? No gravel/rubble to dig into and flip, no barrier to smash your MG to pieces against.

I can see at some point, the best and most challenging circuit in the UK being turned into a kiddie kart track with the installation of a new chicane where Church is!

[skells22]

Matt neal has been given a pen of 0.5 secs and therefore Tom Chilton now gets the point, track limits is the pen this time

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by psq43

To be honest, the rubble and barrier at church haven't really made it safer. Just made a large accident into a larger one.

I wonder, if they'd just removed the tree's, filled in the ditch, and let the grass grow, would that not be safer? No gravel/rubble to dig into and flip, no barrier to smash your MG to pieces against.

I can see at some point, the best and most challenging circuit in the UK being turned into a kiddie kart track with the installation of a new chicane where Church is!

In the interview the Circuit operator stated that they had levelled the run off to track level. I think he mentioned filling in something like 3.5m that's 10 or 11 feet. I presume spinning or out of control cars on (wet) grass going down hill were picking up even more speed as next they are going to slope the ground upwards by I think it was 2.5 degrees and move the barrier a further distance back.

I do agree however that it shouldn't have been bare metal. A double stack of tyres in front and some of the 2 foot thick foam/sponge padding that many circuits use in front of that. Even as a temporary measure until the work is complete.

Having said all that I paid a bit more attention to the circuit surrounds, and it appears to be bare metal Barrier around most of the circuit, it looked from the camera angles that the tyre fronted barriers start at the final chicane and run out before the complex.

[Akrapovic]

I don't understand why every other track and every other series can use tyre barriers, but here it's going to be an issue. There are plenty of super fast corners lined with tyre barriers or even better, safer barriers.

The places that Thruxton does have tyre barriers, they're quite thin. 1 row of tyres isn't really enough, and it isn't really a huge expense to get a lot of old tyres is it?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by mark_l

BMR were warned last winter by TOCA about being outspoken, so it might be that Plato can't say anything good so decides to say nothing.

He is still saying things, just mainly through the Adrian Flux blog. Perhaps that is part of the deal they signed, where Plato is obliged to interact via the blog first, as opposed to other media?
He is still saying things that could be seen as controversial. When BMR previously had a public exchange, TOCA stated that 'each engine’s power is equalised. But how that then converts to on-track performance is entirely up to each team'
Plato's latest comment 'We will know whether the new calculations based upon on-track engine performance at Brands Hatch and Donington are correct. It’s clear to see we have been very, very slow on the straights and it’s clear to see that some people are very fast in the straights, and it should not be like that.' is still coming across as expecting to have straight-line speed equivalency which is not the message from TOCA.

Originally Posted by mark_l

Boost level figures are secret, TOCA gave the Subaru's an increase in that level this weekend, I believe. I don't know if that increase was across all the Levorgs or just certain cars.

The boost adjustments have been applied to all cars, and will be for all cars within each team.
Plato himself admitted he was waiting to see what difference the boost made to his car prior to the meeting.
Sutton's view on the difference in results between him and his teammates backed up the view of some here - he put it down to driving styles.

Originally Posted by mark_l

It is in TOCA's interest to keep Subaru in the championship, but without upsetting the other teams too much. The other teams realise the value of having a manufacturer like Subaru in the championship and would want to bring the Levorgs further up the grid.

Why would Subaru have any additional interest from TOCA to any other manufacturer on the grid?
The championship has got on quite well without them for a number of years, and it was only because a driver had the opinion that he would be unbeatable in the car that he encouraged them to join.
What specifically is it about Subaru that would make other teams value their presence over manufacturers such as Infiniti?

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't understand why every other track and every other series can use tyre barriers, but here it's going to be an issue. There are plenty of super fast corners lined with tyre barriers or even better, safer barriers.

It's an issue because you don't want a car to bounce off a tyre wall and spin back onto the track into the path of other cars.

Circuit owners can't just ignore the MSA's safety instructions. If they did, they would lose their operating licence.

[antnee]

The circuit manager stated that the set up was decided by the MSA and FIA safety teams, they just implemented it. The barrier will go further back after they fund a few more £100k's worth of hardcore to fill in the drop off.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

On other matters the Subaru (except Ash Sutton) and both MGs were pathetic;

IMHO that is a bit harsh.
Are you referring to the drivers or the cars themselves?

Sutton showed the Subaru can perform at the front, on what is a FWD circuit, so they obviously have something right with the car.
The MG's had their chance of progress over the weekend taken away by them both being eliminated in R2 - so not a true indication of how they performed.
Given that they tested at Oulton rather than Thruxton, perhaps after the next meeting would be a better time to see how they get on?

[thlbtcc]

The MG's are lapping 0.5 seconds slower than they did last year, despite new suspension and the latest engine.

[touring fan01]

suttons subaru qualified at the sharp end and was fastest of all RWD cars, even beating the BMWs. he set the fastest lap of the whole in race 1 and set the 4th fastest lap in race 3 again beating the BMWs lap times both times. and this at a non RWD track.

so obviously that subaru is super quick with the right driver. maybe the other three drivers just havent found the driving style required.

[Greem]

The comments about the tyre barrier 'spinning' cars aren't related to the risk of cars bouncing back into the circuit, they're related to rotational brain injuries that result from sudden high-G rotations.

Look at how dazed Neal was at Brands Hatch last year for an example. His was not a severe flick, but it was enough to cause him to sit out the final race of that day.