What is holding Williams back ? - Page 5

**Peter Mallett** · 26 Mar 2012, 19:23 (Ref:3048974)

I think Maldonado is too flaky. Big fat cheque but expensive with it. Threw away qualifying, damaged his car and that (IMO) probably contibuted to the mechanical failure.

**Bononi** · 26 Mar 2012, 23:38 (Ref:3049092)

Agreed. And above all this fat cheque is suspicious...

JeremySmith · 27 Mar 2012, 00:15 (Ref:3049103)

Dirty driver and dirty money....

Marbot · 27 Mar 2012, 00:23 (Ref:3049107)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Agreed. And above all this fat cheque is suspicious...

No less suspicious than the one Ferrari gets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Dirty driver and dirty money....

It would seem that when things do come together for him, he can be very quick.

And if crashing into other drivers is a problem.....

**Bononi** · 27 Mar 2012, 01:14 (Ref:3049126)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

No less suspicious than the one Ferrari gets.

You're the one who's saying that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

It would seem that when things do come together for him, he can be very quick.

And if crashing into other drivers is a problem.....

He's always quick, that doesn't mean he's quick enough... and I don't think crashing into other drivers is a problem, until somebody gets hurt.

wnut · 27 Mar 2012, 01:27 (Ref:3049130)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

He's always quick, that doesn't mean he's quick enough... and I don't think crashing into other drivers is a problem, until somebody gets hurt.

Does get kind of expensive though!

**Bononi** · 27 Mar 2012, 01:54 (Ref:3049137)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Does get kind of expensive though!

In this dire times,yes it does.

ptclaus98 · 27 Mar 2012, 01:55 (Ref:3049138)

There's no excuses for them, now. They've freshened up with Frank and Head moving elsewhere, they have the funds, and Michael and Parr are now gone. It's a fresh start and time to see whether Williams as a company is willing to commit to F1. I have my doubts.

wnut · 27 Mar 2012, 04:30 (Ref:3049160)

Sam Michael's autobiography should be a good read!

beau1 · 27 Mar 2012, 04:57 (Ref:3049165)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Dirty driver and dirty money....

Oh Yes, because money and sponsorship from banks, tabacco companies and media companies is so ethical and clean these days

Added to that, apart from his silly act at Belgium Qualifying last year, when has Pastor been dirty?

He's a fine driver, IMO. A bit inexperienced an over-enthusiastic at times but who wasn't in their second full season of F1? He's certainly quick, he just need to know when to calm down.

csirl · 27 Mar 2012, 09:49 (Ref:3049277)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

This is my point. I fail to see how a change of engine in this day and age of equality in F1 would make such a huge difference.

Selby

The benchmarking focuses on a very limit range of engine parameters such as the max revs and max power of the engine. For most of a race, the engine is not at max revs or power. I just cant help thinking that the Cosworth is deficient in some way in mid or low range power or is maybe a fraction slower at reaching the optimun performance at mid or low range. I'm not an engine expert, so I probably cant articulate this properly, but its too coincidental.

Knowlesy · 27 Mar 2012, 09:58 (Ref:3049283)

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau1

Oh Yes, because money and sponsorship from banks, tabacco companies and media companies is so ethical and clean these days

Added to that, apart from his silly act at Belgium Qualifying last year, when has Pastor been dirty?

He's a fine driver, IMO. A bit inexperienced an over-enthusiastic at times but who wasn't in their second full season of F1? He's certainly quick, he just need to know when to calm down.

Indeed. We seem to be confusing dirty driving with over exuberance.

I can name two world champions, at least, who can put dirty driving into perspective.

**chunterer** · 27 Mar 2012, 10:15 (Ref:3049297)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Indeed. We seem to be confusing dirty driving with over exuberance.

I can name two world champions, at least, who can put dirty driving into perspective.

Indeed!

I think in these 2 drivers they've got the right ones for the moment. There probably isn't a true 'pay driver' as good as PM out there right now and Bruno will give his heart and soul to make it work.

Plus whatever PM does it seems to attract pr value, so as the old saying goes in F1, any news is good news!!

strider · 27 Mar 2012, 11:14 (Ref:3049326)

Regarding Adam Parr, Joe Saward has linked to an article by The Mole which attempts to explain the situation. It's slow going at first, but gets better and I think his theory is probably about right.

http://f1mole.wordpress.com/2012/03/...s-a-boat-trip/

**bjohnsonsmith** · 27 Mar 2012, 11:32 (Ref:3049335)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Regarding Adam Parr, Joe Saward has linked to an article by The Mole which attempts to explain the situation. It's slow going at first, but gets better and I think his theory is probably about right.

http://f1mole.wordpress.com/2012/03/...s-a-boat-trip/

That's a superb article. I love the description of his proposed trip down the river; though this is the bit I liked best:

"In the overall scheme of things, only Ferrari, Williams and McLaren really matter. Sauber does what Ferrari wants. Red Bull and Scuderia Toro Rosso obey the rules of Dietrich Mateschitz. Ferrari’s Luca di Montezemolo is a pragmatist who has proved before that Ferrari always comes first and the other F1 teams are only there to be used in his negotiations with Ecclestone. Williams is the only other brand with value. To Ecclestone the Lotuses, Force Indias, Caterhams, Marussias and HRTs are all cannon-fodder. Lotus was smart enough to jump ship and agree to a deal. The others were probably not even asked."

Priceless.

**Peter Mallett** · 27 Mar 2012, 11:40 (Ref:3049341)

I don't think Maldonado is dirty. I do think he lacks brains and he is impetuous. The lack of the former will simply serve to increase the latter. He ranks right up there with De Ceasaris. Sorry can't see the attraction. But then I never believed JPM would win the WDC and I was wrong abou....... Oh wait!

**bella** · 27 Mar 2012, 11:53 (Ref:3049344)

"yes pastor, but if we charge you more, your wallet lightens, which means you weigh less and you'll be a faster driver."

wnut · 27 Mar 2012, 12:10 (Ref:3049355)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Regarding Adam Parr, Joe Saward has linked to an article by The Mole which attempts to explain the situation. It's slow going at first, but gets better and I think his theory is probably about right.

http://f1mole.wordpress.com/2012/03/...s-a-boat-trip/

Thanks Strider - great analysis by the Mole as always - guess we know what happened now.

JeremySmith · 27 Mar 2012, 12:20 (Ref:3049362)

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau1

Oh Yes, because money and sponsorship from banks, tabacco companies and media companies is so ethical and clean these days

Added to that, apart from his silly act at Belgium Qualifying last year, when has Pastor been dirty?

He's a fine driver, IMO. A bit inexperienced an over-enthusiastic at times but who wasn't in their second full season of F1? He's certainly quick, he just need to know when to calm down.

I did not say that bank or tobacco money is clean either, At Spa he took a swipe at Hamilton, and in Australia 2012 turned left into Grosjean running him off the track..

So calm down and drive clean Pastor..

Marbot · 27 Mar 2012, 14:11 (Ref:3049445)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

He's always quick, that doesn't mean he's quick enough... and I don't think crashing into other drivers is a problem, until somebody gets hurt.

I think that it does and has been a problem if it's done regularly enough.

Knowlesy · 27 Mar 2012, 15:36 (Ref:3049487)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I don't think Maldonado is dirty. I do think he lacks brains and he is impetuous. The lack of the former will simply serve to increase the latter. He ranks right up there with De Ceasaris. Sorry can't see the attraction. But then I never believed JPM would win the WDC and I was wrong abou....... Oh wait!

If Maldonado gets to within a late-season, Ferrari appeasing rule change of the title then he will have exceeded all my expectations.

I am indifferent to him, I think he's OK, but this "dirty" tag that is being bandied around is very silly and so I feel the need to get annoyed on his behalf. He is not Jerez '97.

I did miss the entire second half of last season though, so if anyone has evidence that he is a nasty piece of work then I am happy to be proven wrong.

**bella** · 27 Mar 2012, 15:46 (Ref:3049493)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I am indifferent to him, I think he's OK, but this "dirty" tag that is being bandied around is very silly and so I feel the need to get annoyed on his behalf. He is not Jerez '97.

I did miss the entire second half of last season though, so if anyone has evidence that he is a nasty piece of work then I am happy to be proven wrong.

it's not dirty, it's just not smart enough to avoid the accident!

in his gp2 winning season, he won the title by shunting it in both races at monza for example.

**chunterer** · 27 Mar 2012, 18:32 (Ref:3049573)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

it's not dirty, it's just not smart enough to avoid the accident!

in his gp2 winning season, he won the title by shunting it in both races at monza for example.

Yes but he'd already done the hard work in the preceeding 12 odd races!

wnut · 29 Mar 2012, 08:45 (Ref:3050326)

Williams' biggest problem would appear to be the shear bloody mindedness that they have adopted toward their employees.
They have a staff turnover which other than the 2 owners would limit their total corporate knowledge to about 18 months.

They appear IMO to have very little faith in the saying "your employees are your business".

barnettracing · 29 Mar 2012, 10:52 (Ref:3050352)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I did not say that bank or tobacco money is clean either, At Spa he took a swipe at Hamilton, and in Australia 2012 turned left into Grosjean running him off the track..

So calm down and drive clean Pastor..

But he didn't turn left into Grosjean. As I have repeated over and over again, Grosjean (as much as I prefer him to PM) tried to stay with him on the outside of the corner rather than back off and try to cut inside.

Jackie Stewart once said that turning out of the corner was just as important (if not more) than turning in. From BriSCA to F1, you always turn out the corner to maximise the amount of track you use and hence your speed; it is basic race driving. Grosjean was nowhere alongside and should have realised. If anyone was showing their inexperience it was RG. At the end of the day though, this is what happens when you go racing. **** happens.

For the past 25 years F1 (and other racing) drivers have pushed the guy on the outside out. They have edged the guy on the inside down to the pitwall. It's not like PM is the first, the last nor the worst.

It bemuses me that Maldonado is being called dirty. He makes mistakes but then I have always expected that of someone who nearly wiped out a marshal under double waved yellows in FR3.5. There are drivers on the F1 grid who would do worse than the Venezuelan.

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