Manufacturer Relationships

[Langers]

Does anyone know of a site that lists ALL the car brands in the world, who owns them, and what % they own of each other?

Alternatively we will have to start a list here

[Ray Bell]

Certainly a worthwhile project, but can it be done?

In Australia we have a lot of badge engineering. For instance, Holden's Commodore for a long time sold also as a Toyota Lexcen, while Holden sold Camrys as Apollos and Corollas under yet another name, while they simultaneously supplied engines to Nissan for the Pulsar (local version) and sold that as the Astra, the Suzuki Swift selling as the Barina!

Ford also had deals with Nissan, for Nissan sold Falcon utes as Nissans for a while.

So who's got shares in whom is going to be difficult to ascertain. Mitsubishi were also in with Chrysler here, but that changed and now they operate independently. '

Of course there are other deals that have nothing to do with ownership (as indeed, some of the above may well not either), like Peugeot being assembled and sold by Renault, but then going over to Leyland because of import duty limitations that saw Leyland with room to move in the 2-litre market after the demise of the Dolomite, this fitting well with Peugeot's increased presence with the last of the 504s and the start of the 505s.

The way things have changed recently, it will take an astute observer to get this nearly right...

[Langers]

Well I'm going to have a stab at this. I know it's NOWHERE near the level of info I want, but this is what I know so far:

FIAT:

Fiat, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Lancia

VW:

VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat, Lamborghini, Bugatti

PSA:

Peugeot, Citroen

Renault has ties with nissan, BMW owns all sorts of old British brands, but that's about all I know. I think this indeed will be an impossible task

[Ray Bell]

I didn't know Fiat and Alfa are linked, I thought Alfa was State-supported and Fiat independent.

I guess the Mercedes Benz-Studebaker tie up is finished?

[Wolf]

Langers- it's VAG, not VW and it includes Porsche as well...

And, IIRC, Saab has also ties with renault/Nissan...

[Langers]

What does "IIRC" mean?

I didn't know porsche had any link with VW, I thought they were independent, ie shareholders and family.

Saab also has ties with GM, as does Fiat.

[Ray Bell]

'IIRC' is If I Recall Correctly... IIRC...

GM also has an interest in Volvo, I'm sure, Toyota and Daewoo.

[elephino]

Let me sort this out

Ford:
Ford, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Volvo Cars (not trucks), Range Rover

PSA:
Citroen, Peugeot

GM:
US brands I'm not going to try, Vauxhall, Opel, Holden, % of Fiat, maybe Daewoo shortly

Renault:
Renault, Nissan

VW/Audi Group:
VW, Audi, Skoda, SEAT, Bugatti, Lamborghini

Porsche:
Porsche is indepenent but they have worked with VW on the new Cayenne and also do engineering for a number of companies

BMW:
BMW, Mini

DaimlerChrysler:
Mercedes-Benz, Chrysler, % of Mitsubishi

Toyota:
Toyota, Daihatsu

Honda:
Honda

Anyone I've forgotten?

[elephino]

I did forget one.

GM own Saab too.

[Langers]

Thanks for your help elephino. I think this will really will be an impossible task. Especially finding out the names of all the old british brands that BMW own.

[Truckosaurus]

It gets even more complex as some 'relationships' are hierarchical...

eg. In the VAG group, Audi controls Lamborghini and in the FIAT group Ferrari controls Maserati.

Other brands not yet mentioned: VAG owns Bentley, BMW owns Rolls-Royce (and still produces Bentley road cars), GM owns Subaru.

Other peculiarities are that in the UK the Daimler brand is owned by Jaguar (and hence Ford) whereas elsewhere it is a Mercedes brand (and hence the Chrysler Corp...) - also, in the USA the top line Jaguars are marketted as Vanden Plas models, which was always a Rover/British Leyland brand.

[Ray Bell]

Seeing as this has strayed seriously off-topic, I'll list the GM USA brands:

Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Chevrolet and Cadillac.

Gone are Reo, Oakland and a number of others.

GM presently are large stakeholders in Daewoo, they are considering a total takeover.

Pommie brands in German hands include Rolls Royce and Bentley, I think BMW has fingers in one of the pies.

[Amaroo Park]

GM also have an interest or own Subaru. And Rover/MG are owned by a group called The Phoniex Group I think.

[elephino]

Damn, I missed FIAT altogether.

FIAT: FIAT, Alfa, Lancia, Ferrari, Maserati

I missed a few though Bentley, Rolls Royce, Subaru.

Subaru is interesting, I'm not sure of how it all works or if it still works the same. Subaru is a subsidiary of Fuji Heavy Industries which at least used to be partly owned by Nissan, now Renault (merger my arse). I'm not sure if Renault still own part or if that part was sold to GM.

I don't know if BMW still own the Rover Group car names (Triumph, Austin Healey and many many others) or if they went with Rover to Phoenix.

Guy, Daimler is Mercedes-Benz, the Daimler badge is owned by Jaguar which is why they can use it. Can't remember how that came about.

VW are producing Rolls Royce cars, not BMW/Bentleys. The name (only) of Rolls Royce goes to BMW in 2003. I think BMW came up well on that deal, made VW pay more money and still got the brand name they were really after.

[Langers]

Thanks for your help everyone