[Official] Mexican Grand Prix 2016: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Sky's race blog is still running and has this as the latest news.

FIA haven't updated thie webpage yet.

10 second penalty for Vettel causing a collision with Ricciardo

Ricciardo now 3rd Verstappen 4th and Vetel 5th

Confirmed on Autosport: http://www.autosport.com/news/report...can-gp-penalty

10sec penalty for SV, DR gets 3rd place.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

at the first corner when Lewis went off he was at least two car lengths clear of anyone else

Not that difficult if you don't brake/the brakes don't work/brake too late - when everyone else does brake for the first corner.

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

...anyway as said, fine, give Lewis a 5 second penalty.....makes no odds

A 10 second penalty would hurt immensely, though.

[chillibowl]

i suppose there are arguments one can make saying a first corner incident should be looked at differently but when one has a lock up then that should be a mistake that gets penalized regardless of when one makes that mistake.

otherwise whats the point of having a high end competition?

SV's ranting is getting a bit boring but glad we get to hear this stuff. have to say though that Arrivabene came through sounding every bit like the team principle Ferrari need.

[Razzzor]

While the track looked nice, how can you have that HUGE straight, DRS, and yet no one can pass on it? Seems odd.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

While the track looked nice, how can you have that HUGE straight, DRS, and yet no one can pass on it? Seems odd.

right?

a lot of gravel at the end of that straight and we might see drivers respect their braking points and maybe we will get some more overtaking.

more beached cars as well but you cant have reward without risk.

[Wims]

Straight up cheating from Verstappen cost Vettel the podium. Disgraceful racing IMO

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Not sure - at the first corner when Lewis went off he was at least two car lengths clear of anyone else - as seen from the overhead shots.....when Max went off Seb was right on his gearbox......anyway as said, fine, give Lewis a 5 second penalty.....makes no odds

Seb's petulance and foul-mouthed ranting does him no favours, of course....

Blurry lines with that statement. Verstappen and Hamilton both appear to be well ahead....

But had any of them bothered to actually brake appropriately to make the corner, they would have ended up in a much closer fight in the corner.

Had Verstappen actually braked earlier as he should have, Vettel would have been right alongside fighting for position.

Both Hamilton and Verstappen knew there was little consequence in missing the braking point there..even an advantage to be had. If this was a big gravel trap at the end of the braking zone, it would be a completely different story and a completely different incentive to making the corner vs just skipping off course and rejoining.

Hamilton knew what he did and how there wasn't a big risk to miss the first corner. Hamilton knew he had to have track position at all cost if he was going to win the race. He needs to win every race from here onwards. Verstappen knew the same. They should have both gotten the penalty or none at all.

[Articus]

Vettel was absolutely hilarious to watch today. Seems terribly frustrated all of the time. Mouthing off on the radio at anything and everything every chance he gets. I certainly got my laughs out of it! And the finger wagging saying "no,no no" to verstappen at the end. Absolutely hilarious!

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

right?

a lot of gravel at the end of that straight and we might see drivers respect their braking points and maybe we will get some more overtaking.

more beached cars as well but you cant have reward without risk.

Gravel for genuinely out of control cars but a bollard with designated escape road determining whether

Quick sketch ... Bollard on the point of the Red lines, Yellow approx gravel location.

Straight on to the left of the bollard and you have to use the escape road,
Straight on to the right, then either slow down and drive around the gravel or try and get through it.

Because I'm in a mean mood, added penalty between the white lines of the escape road pit limiter must be employed regardless of whether you join it at the white line or cross some grass first and then join it.

[fieldodreams79]

Max and Hammy did the exact same thing. One received a penalty and one didn't. I think I'm done with this series. Boring races and inconsistent, in addition to down right shady application on penalty enforcement.

Glad the Mexicans show up in force. They deserve a better show than this farce.

[GT6]

It does appear to be a very inconsistent approach with the feeling in general that the stewards have been given the job of trying to ensure the procession of cars is not endangered by anyone trying to actually overtake. F1 needs excitement and does not need the result to be changed twice after the finish IMHO

[wnut]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Max and Hammy did the exact same thing. One received a penalty and one didn't. I think I'm done with this series. Boring races and inconsistent, in addition to down right shady application on penalty enforcement.

Glad the Mexicans show up in force. They deserve a better show than this farce.

Agreed!

This is just plain cheating!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB-tRxgad44

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

While the track looked nice, how can you have that HUGE straight, DRS, and yet no one can pass on it? Seems odd.

Two reasons:

1 It's hard for these cars to follow closely out of the last corner. Hopefully one day (perhaps with Ross Brawn involved) we get cars that can follow each other through corners.

2 The DRS activation zone is pretty late on the straight. Therefore it's not that easy. I think that is a good thing.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

right?

a lot of gravel at the end of that straight and we might see drivers respect their braking points and maybe we will get some more overtaking.

more beached cars as well but you cant have reward without risk.

Agreed. If they just put some gravel in front of T3, drivers can still pass it left or right so we can keep the cars in the race, but you WILL loose time.

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Gravel for genuinely out of control cars but a bollard with designated escape road determining whether

Quick sketch ... Bollard on the point of the Red lines, Yellow approx gravel location.
Attachment 48571
Straight on to the left of the bollard and you have to use the escape road,
Straight on to the right, then either slow down and drive around the gravel or try and get through it.
.

They can leave out the bollard. Just place the gravel trap such that you loose time to avoid it and get back to the track and it's fine.

[rpolinski]

Surely Vettel must have another penalty to come his way. You can't let any driver, let alone a multiple world champion, get away with telling the race director to F-off on international television.

[littleman]

Hamilton gained an advantage, as did Verstappen, as did Rosberg come to that.
Vettel moved underbraking on Ricciardo whilst Massa and Perez just got bored and had some fun.Kvyat gained and advantage, Sainz ran Alsonso off the circuit but never knew he was there, whilst Kimi went backwards for no apparent reason.

They all squeal like spoilt school girls from the moment the race starts, so I think they should be forced to pit, given a damn good slapping for 10 seconds, and then sent on their way.

I'd award the race to Ricciardo or Hulkenberg because I like them.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Gravel for genuinely out of control cars but a bollard with designated escape road determining whether

Quick sketch ... Bollard on the point of the Red lines, Yellow approx gravel location.
Attachment 48571
Straight on to the left of the bollard and you have to use the escape road,
Straight on to the right, then either slow down and drive around the gravel or try and get through it.

Because I'm in a mean mood, added penalty between the white lines of the escape road pit limiter must be employed regardless of whether you join it at the white line or cross some grass first and then join it.

Nah, it needs to have an electrified moat, with sharks.

[bauble]

Verstappen, by his arrogant behaviour so angered Vettel that he lost his cool and used offensive language that cost him his podium. Had the kid moved over as he should have done Ricciardo would not have been in the position to challenge Seb, so a double cause of Vettel's anger.

All of this because no one will put the 18 year old in his place with a significant penalty following any of the incidents he has been involved with. A shame such a talent and breath of fresh air who adds to the excitement of the sport, should spoil it all by his total in ability to admit he is ever wrong.

I blame his father and Horner for not teaching the kid proper manners (on track). Too much too soon, it is all well and good letting teenagers with the necessary skills race in Formula 1, but as we saw with Lewis in his early years, they don't have the mental strengths for the stress's of modern day Grands Prix.

Talent is not enough, experience is required, and 17 year olds just do not have it.


Vettel fully deserved his third place, and lost it because of an over hyped spoilt brat. A sad reflection on the current state of F1.

No doubt many will rush to defend Max and condemn Seb, but the day anyone agrees with me is a long way off.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by littleman

They all squeal like spoilt school girls from the moment the race starts, so I think they should be forced to pit, given a damn good slapping for 10 seconds, and then sent on their way.

Just amazing how much in the way of bad-tempered radio comms there was through this race - makes me wonder what on earth is in the local water?

Like your slapping idea but it could be livened up by using fish (a la Monty Python) - that could work.

[Akrapovic]

Maybe this RoboRace AI racing series will be pretty good. No bloody children to babysit.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bauble

Vettel fully deserved his third place, and lost it because of an over hyped spoilt brat. A sad reflection on the current state of F1.

It was clear that Max was effectively backing Seb into Daniel after Max's short cut of that corner - regardless of whether it was intentional or not. I reckon I would have been spitting chips as well in Seb's position. I'm not sure what powers race control have to instruct a driver to let another driver through but it seems to me that such an instruction would have been better for the race than a post race 5 sec penalty for Max.

Whether or not Daniel would have got up to Seb in those circumstances is conjecture and Seb DID do the wrong thing under brakes as per the recent clarifications but I tend to agree with you that the catalyst was Max's actions and the lack of dealing with those actions during the race by race control.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by bauble

Verstappen, by his arrogant behaviour so angered Vettel that he lost his cool and used offensive language that cost him his podium. Had the kid moved over as he should have done Ricciardo would not have been in the position to challenge Seb, so a double cause of Vettel's anger.

All of this because no one will put the 18 year old in his place with a significant penalty following any of the incidents he has been involved with. A shame such a talent and breath of fresh air who adds to the excitement of the sport, should spoil it all by his total in ability to admit he is ever wrong.

I blame his father and Horner for not teaching the kid proper manners (on track). Too much too soon, it is all well and good letting teenagers with the necessary skills race in Formula 1, but as we saw with Lewis in his early years, they don't have the mental strengths for the stress's of modern day Grands Prix.

Talent is not enough, experience is required, and 17 year olds just do not have it.


Vettel fully deserved his third place, and lost it because of an over hyped spoilt brat. A sad reflection on the current state of F1.

No doubt many will rush to defend Max and condemn Seb, but the day anyone agrees with me is a long way off.

Veteran Vettel isn't either...

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Gravel for genuinely out of control cars but a bollard with designated escape road determining whether

Quick sketch ... Bollard on the point of the Red lines, Yellow approx gravel location.
Attachment 48571
Straight on to the left of the bollard and you have to use the escape road,
Straight on to the right, then either slow down and drive around the gravel or try and get through it.

Because I'm in a mean mood, added penalty between the white lines of the escape road pit limiter must be employed regardless of whether you join it at the white line or cross some grass first and then join it.

I don't like the idea of having bollards at a point where someone going 370kph could have a brake failure.

but why not have some sort of penalty markings? like some diagonal red stripes a meter from the track edge, clearly indicating "you can't go there". if you so much as touch them, you get a penalty. no discussion.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by marcel82

I don't like the idea of having bollards at a point where someone going 370kph could have a brake failure.

but why not have some sort of penalty markings? like some diagonal red stripes a meter from the track edge, clearly indicating "you can't go there". if you so much as touch them, you get a penalty. no discussion.

No penalties please. We have enough of those already. Just design the tracks that gaining an unfair advantage is impossible. In this case a simple gravel trap in front of T3 is enough. That's it.

[TrapezeArtist]

It wasn't the Race Stewards finest hour, though I have a small degree of sympathy with them because they are required to adjudicate on some very grey areas. Most of it comes down to "track limits" (again!). Exceeding track limits a little bit is OK. Exceeding track limits and gaining a significant advantage is not. What is "a little bit"? What is "significant"?

Along with most of the earlier posts, I agree that Hamilton's and Verstappen's exceeding of track limits and the advantage they got from it were so similar that they should both have received the same penalty.

When Verstappen elbowed Rosberg off the road, Rosberg didn't deserve a penalty (and didn't get one) but perhaps Mad Max did because he didn't give Nicola room.

I'm sure Sainz didn't intend to push Alonso off the road, but he did do it. So the penalty is fair.

I'm not yet sure on the Ricardo/Vettel incident. I need to look at the replays a few more times. However I saw that the stewards viewed on-board and trackside video, close-circuit video and telemetry from both cars before reaching their decision. So I'm inclined to accept their decision.

Vettel seems to need to go on an anger management course. Telling the race director to F-off on a public broadcast is clearly unacceptable and he needs slapping with something harder than a wet fish. Perhaps he could get away with it more easily if he chose a different language to swear in; Swahili perhaps, or ancient Greek. Anyway, it's good to see that he has now found a new use for his recently-redundant index finger.

Returning to the track limits problem, we've discussed it many times before, but there are a few possibilities.
1. Something physical at trackside that will ensure a disadvantage to anyone going off the track. No kerbs at all. Then on the outside of the corners a small drop (100mm? 150mm?) and with just a single place where cars can return to the track without going back up the step. And that single place could have a chicane built-in to make them lose more time.
2. Apparently Bernie's suggetion is a 400mm wall at trackside. Not his daftest idea ever.
3. Keep track layouts as they are but enforce a zero tolerance rule on crossing the white line.
4. In any of these cases you have to take account of the difference between drivers who go off on their own account and those who are pushed off. Any driver who doesn't allow a full car's width to someone who goes over track limits would have to suffer a penalty greater than that suffered by his "victim". This unfortunately is not self-policing like 1 and 2 so inevitably throws things back into the hands of the stewards. However, after a few races to get people used to it, I think there would be very few instances where this would happen, so in that sense it would become self-policing.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Just amazing how much in the way of bad-tempered radio comms there was through this race - makes me wonder what on earth is in the local water?

have a feeling this is an editorial decision not an increase in stroppy drivers. maybe seb pushed in front of someone from FOM in the toilet queue earlier

honestly, if what vettel said about the race director is so offensive then why the hell did they broadcast it?