Team Willis and Costa join Mercedes

Marbot · 30 Sep 2011, 09:31 (Ref:2962861)

Geoff Willis and Aldo Costa join Mercedes. Bob Bell, formerly of Renault, has also joined the team.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94915

They have some good people there now. Will they be a match for Newey and his team?

**BertMk2** · 30 Sep 2011, 09:44 (Ref:2962863)

I'm not convinced by Geoff Willis - is he actually any good? He was at BAR - they were crap, he was at Red Bull - they're good now he's gone, he was at Hispania - they're crap.

I realise I may be massively over simplifying things but there you go

Marbot · 30 Sep 2011, 09:50 (Ref:2962866)

Geoff Willis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Willis

Newey can't do everything by himself.

It's also pretty obvious that the BAR was a much better car than any of the Honda's were.

**BertMk2** · 30 Sep 2011, 09:58 (Ref:2962871)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

It's also pretty obvious that the BAR was a much better car than any of the Honda's were.

Apart from the last Honda of course - that was rather good if I remember correctly (ok they wrote "Brawn" on the side of it but it was a Honda).

Marbot · 30 Sep 2011, 10:10 (Ref:2962874)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Apart from the last Honda of course - that was rather good if I remember correctly (ok they wrote "Brawn" on the side of it but it was a Honda).

Perhaps it was because it had the word Brawn written on the side of it that made all the difference?

It was rather good, for about six months, and then it wasn't much good after that. Mr Brawn interpreted the regs in a different way after having pointed out a loophole to everyone at a technical meeting. No one listened, and so the double diffuser was born, again. Obviously word gets around and it also turned up on the Williams and Toyota cars. Which just goes to prove that Brawn having a double diffuser wasn't the 'silver bullet' that many thought it was.

Aldo Costa has done a fair bit, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldo_Costa

stripedcat · 30 Sep 2011, 12:43 (Ref:2962929)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Apart from the last Honda of course - that was rather good if I remember correctly (ok they wrote "Brawn" on the side of it but it was a Honda).

Plus the fact that it had a Mercedes engine inside it. Some of the BARs and Hondas were pretty good(gave Button some pole positions, podiums and of course a win - you can argue amongst yourself if it was lucky or not).

Willis is experienced and I am sure that working with Newey must have helped him. Mercedes have quite a good team of designers and engineers around them now.

With an improved Schumi and a hungry for victory Rosberg it could be a successful partnership. The ingredients are there, but as we know, it doesn't always guarantee a victory.

csirl · 30 Sep 2011, 13:58 (Ref:2962961)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Apart from the last Honda of course - that was rather good if I remember correctly (ok they wrote "Brawn" on the side of it but it was a Honda).

Are you sure? Word is that it was a Super Aguri with a 'Brawn' on the side.

**Bononi** · 30 Sep 2011, 14:51 (Ref:2962980)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stripedcat

With an improved Schumi and a hungry for victory Rosberg it could be a successful partnership. The ingredients are there, but as we know, it doesn't always guarantee a victory.

Provided they have the right recipe...

herowassenna · 30 Sep 2011, 19:29 (Ref:2963130)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Perhaps it was because it had the word Brawn written on the side of it that made all the difference?

It was rather good, for about six months, and then it wasn't much good after that. Mr Brawn interpreted the regs in a different way after having pointed out a loophole to everyone at a technical meeting. No one listened, and so the double diffuser was born, again. Obviously word gets around and it also turned up on the Williams and Toyota cars. Which just goes to prove that Brawn having a double diffuser wasn't the 'silver bullet' that many thought it was.

Aldo Costa has done a fair bit, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldo_Costa

Whats a worry for Merc/ Schumi fans is that Costa is credited with the 2005 Ferrari....

Marbot · 30 Sep 2011, 19:41 (Ref:2963147)

Quote:

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Whats a worry for Merc/ Schumi fans is that Costa is credited with the 2005 Ferrari....

No one will ever really know how good that Ferrari was, due to it having been lumbered with 'very safe (won Indy), but not very good otherwise' Bridgestone 'race distance' tyres.

**Adam43** · 30 Sep 2011, 20:16 (Ref:2963186)

Quote:

Originally Posted by csirl

Are you sure? Word is that it was a Super Aguri with a 'Brawn' on the side.

Only if that word was ********.

herowassenna · 1 Oct 2011, 17:15 (Ref:2963591)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

No one will ever really know how good that Ferrari was, due to it having been lumbered with 'very safe (won Indy), but not very good otherwise' Bridgestone 'race distance' tyres.

I don't disagree, I remember that awesome race at Imola betwebb Alonso and Schumi on a day when the tyres worked. But I also remember that horrific mess of a front wing...

csirl · 3 Oct 2011, 13:16 (Ref:2964920)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

Only if that word was ********.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21284.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/m...d-1805654.html

Double diffuser was invented by Ben Wood of Super Aguri. When SA ceased, some of the staff moved to Honda (as they were owned by Honda).

**BertMk2** · 3 Oct 2011, 13:51 (Ref:2964937)

Quote:

Originally Posted by csirl

Double diffuser was invented by Ben Wood of Super Aguri. When SA ceased, some of the staff moved to Honda (as they were owned by Honda).

There you go then - the Brawn was a Honda. The Super Aguri staff moved to Honda and took their ideas with them. Otherwise by your reasoning the Toyota was also a Super Aguri

Marbot · 3 Oct 2011, 15:15 (Ref:2964973)

This article may clear it up a bit.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21284.html

Also, there is a thread from around the time.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120111

Mekola · 4 Oct 2011, 10:21 (Ref:2965441)

Didn't Aldo Costa design cars for Minardi before?

Marbot · 4 Oct 2011, 10:26 (Ref:2965448)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekola

Didn't Aldo Costa design cars for Minardi before?

Yes. But he had a very limited budget at a time when money was everything in F1. Probably still is.

**chunterer** · 4 Oct 2011, 11:12 (Ref:2965482)

Isn't Brackley going to be a case of too many cooks on the senior engineering side now though?

Geoff Willis seems to have fallen out with a few teams in recent years, otherwise why would he have moved so often and Aldo Costa was ok when he was like the deputy to Rory Byrne but in the years where Byrne took more of a back seat (or wasn't there at all) Costa's designs weren't all that great....

Unless these 2 guys are going to replace the current chief aero and chief design roles at Mercedes, it surely must be a case of a rather expensive brain dumping move more than anything else?

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