Barrichello to be replaced by pay driver?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think you are spot on there, I had forgotten about Pat Symonds, who I have a lot of respect for from and engineering point of view..

The other stuff well.....

Maybe Symonds and Sam Michael could get along with one another and form a team, two heads and all that ....

The next major question though would be how serious are Virgin?
I would much rather be at Force, they seem much better financed and far more serious.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Maybe Symonds and Sam Michael could get along with one another and form a team, two heads and all that ....

The next major question though would be how serious are Virgin?
I would much rather be at Force, they seem much better financed and far more serious.

My answer to your first question is..

Yes they would get along..Fund a team, or get the funding no...

Virgin are serious because Richard Branson does not play unless it is for real..

Force India, Vijay Mallya a total player...Adrian Sutil extremely fast and very focused, the other two drivers VERY talented...

You just don't get the chance to drive a F1 car unless you are special, very special..

Overall the team to watch over the next two years...

IMHO.....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

My answer to your first question is..

Yes they would get along..Fund a team, or get the funding no...

Virgin are serious because Richard Branson does not play unless it is for real..

Force India, Vijay Mallya a total player...Adrian Sutil extremely fast and very focused, the other two drivers VERY talented...

You just don't get the chance to drive a F1 car unless you are special, very special..

Overall the team to watch over the next two years...

IMHO.....

Sorry I was unclear, what I meant was would there in fact be room for Sam Michael at Virgin even with Pat Symonds already installed. Would they be able to perform together as a team within Virgin.

From a Force perspective, a major part of having a serious effort is having serious drivers. I believe this was Toyota's major problem, in their instance the Japanese practice of hanging on to staff did them no favours and torpedoed their effort.
IMHO, the grid currently has some very special drivers and some barely competent drivers. Yes F1 drivers are all special in terms of non racing drivers, but they have to be rated against one another, and when you stack some of them up against the top 3 they don't look too good.
The worrying fact is that many of them don't look too good against drivers outside F1. The teams need to be able to run back to back driver evaluations.

On a separate note, does anyone know how much the points are worth in terms of revenue?

[JeremySmith]

Sorry but they are all better than good...

They just would not be there at all unless they were special.. Think about it a little more..

Thank you. I do enjoy these conversations as I know nothing to be honest..

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Thank you. I do enjoy these conversations as I know nothing to be honest..

We know nothing, however some of us here think they know something.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Wonder how many investors there are who are reconsidering?
What is their share price now compared to when they floated?

This should help you, minus 38.5% apparently.

http://www.pitpass.com/44597-William...-in-six-months

[sizzle]

Thank you

Impressive performance.

[Carsandmotorracing]

Well that's not good.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by wnut

This should help you, minus 38.5% apparently.

http://www.pitpass.com/44597-William...-in-six-months

Upon reading news of the Williams Grand Prix Engineering share price, our international business correspondent said:

Originally Posted by Carsandmotorracing

Well that's not good.

[Carsandmotorracing]

LOL

[VIVA GT]

I must say that I find the continued decline of Williams Grand Prix Engineering sad & depressing.
I was always a fan in the early days, and admired their spirit and achievements. In a (hopefully) non-jingoistic way I applauded their "Britishness" shown in ways such as painting their mechanics Snap-On toolboxes British Racing Green (when they were only available in Snap-On red in those days).
They diversified successfully into rallying, developing the Metro 6R4, Touring Cars and Sports Cars, showing how innovative they could be. They also developed the flywheel KERS system which although they've not used it themselves, I believe have sold this technology to Porsche for use in sports car racing.
The question is: where (and why) have they gone wrong?
Could it be that, due to advancing age, Patrick Head and Sir Frank have lost the interest or the drive necessary? Surely they're clever / logical / realistic enough to realise if this is happening and get people in place to continue the WGPE story?
As I said at the start of this post, I find the continued decline of Williams Grand Prix Engineering sad & depressing...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I must say that I find the continued decline of Williams Grand Prix Engineering sad & depressing.
I was always a fan in the early days, and admired their spirit and achievements. In a (hopefully) non-jingoistic way I applauded their "Britishness" shown in ways such as painting their mechanics Snap-On toolboxes British Racing Green (when they were only available in Snap-On red in those days).
They diversified successfully into rallying, developing the Metro 6R4, Touring Cars and Sports Cars, showing how innovative they could be. They also developed the flywheel KERS system which although they've not used it themselves, I believe have sold this technology to Porsche for use in sports car racing.
The question is: where (and why) have they gone wrong?
Could it be that, due to advancing age, Patrick Head and Sir Frank have lost the interest or the drive necessary? Surely they're clever / logical / realistic enough to realise if this is happening and get people in place to continue the WGPE story?
As I said at the start of this post, I find the continued decline of Williams Grand Prix Engineering sad & depressing...

The lesson:

YOUR BUSINESS IS YOUR PEOPLE

There are a whole bunch of companies and countries that could learn that one!

[Ben H]

Gosh it is depressing, it is remiscant of the decline of Tyrrell and teams like that( though I dearly hope they start moving up the field). What I do find a bit depressing is the way they seem to be bending on previously quite fixed principles. I mean when it was announced that they were taking nakajima for a discount on the Toyota engines a few years back, I was ASTONISHED. This was the team who had passed up a shot at the 1988 world championship by refusing to take nakajima (senior) plus Honda engines, and ran NA Judds! A striking difference....and the receipt of maldonado and the cash from dear old mr chavez lot, although apparantly necessary, is a far way from the glory years.....coupled with the fact that they are selling shares in the team to anyone with a few quid, when they wouldn't give any to a certain employee by the name if A.Newey(how costly might that turn out to have been?), and all these outside ventures, quatar, road cars, from what was very much a total racing team, it is confusing...

I guess the big curiosity of it for me is that it does not seem from my outside position that Williams are going down all guns blazing sticking to their principles and being overtaken by the passage of time, but seem to be fundamentally comprimising some of them and declining anyway...and dare I say it, but from Reading the top journos like roebuck etc Adam part dosent seem in the old williams mould, so it is increasingly difficult for me to forsee where there modus operandi is heading...and all this frustratingly in an era of resource, engine restrictions and more private teams which you would think would better suit Williams....

And it pains me to say it as a big fan, but have thought for a while now Rubens is on thin ice regards keeping that seat next year....although at least one thing might help his hopes of staying on: he isn't strolling to the world championship, they would definately have not retained him then!!!

[VIVA GT]

I'm now thinking, having read this, that maybe the GP team is just a small (and probably thougt of as less significant) part of the whole company that makes up Williams Grand Prix Engineering...

[davyboy]

Lack of cash and a large ego are a toxic combination in F1. This is what's led Williams to where it is today. I don't feel any sympathy for Head or Williams. The pair have squandered positive opportunities, dismissed talented people and partnered with very dubious people/organizations... all while becoming very wealthy.

[strider]

That is arguably the harshest comment I have ever read on here and, in my opinion, largely unfounded. Yes, mistakes have been made, but anyone who fails to recognise that at heart Frank Williams and Patrick Head are true racers and enthusiasts either hasn't been around long enough to understand or is unable to appreciate those qualities.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by strider

That is arguably the harshest comment I have ever read on here and, in my opinion, largely unfounded. Yes, mistakes have been made, but anyone who fails to recognise that at heart Frank Williams and Patrick Head are true racers and enthusiasts either hasn't been around long enough to understand or is unable to appreciate those qualities.

I've been involved in motor racing since the 1970s, so have seen all the ups and downs of Williams in its various guises through 4 decades. Frank Williams and Patrick Head may have been racers and enthusiasts, but there's another side to them that can't be overlooked. There have been too many mistakes and too many ill judged decisions - the most recent being the floatation. Unfortunately I can't see any way back for Williams Grand Prix under their stewardship.

[strider]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I've been involved in motor racing since the 1970s, so have seen all the ups and downs of Williams in its various guises through 4 decades. Frank Williams and Patrick Head may have been racers and enthusiasts, but there's another side to them that can't be overlooked. There have been too many mistakes and too many ill judged decisions - the most recent being the floatation. Unfortunately I can't see any way back for Williams Grand Prix under their stewardship.

They hired Adam Parr as Chairman and Sam Michael, first as Senior Operations Manager and then as Technical Director. They were the decision makers of late. Frank and Patrick deliberately took a back seat, so why nail them to the wall?

Losing Hulkenberg was a blow, but one forced on the team by necessity. It wasn't their fault that the RBS turned out to be more of an embarrassment than a sponsor. And so on...

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by strider

They hired Adam Parr as Chairman and Sam Michael, first as Senior Operations Manager and then as Technical Director. They were the decision makers of late. Frank and Patrick deliberately took a back seat, so why nail them to the wall?

Losing Hulkenberg was a blow, but one forced on the team by necessity. It wasn't their fault that the RBS turned out to be more of an embarrassment than a sponsor. And so on...

Frank and Patrick have always made the major decisions at Williams and still do. Nothing strategic is done without their blessing... and that includes the floatation. Williams got where they were because of Frank and Patrick and they are where they are because of them too.

[strider]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Frank and Patrick have always made the major decisions at Williams and still do. Nothing strategic is done without their blessing... and that includes the floatation. Williams got where they were because of Frank and Patrick and they are where they are because of them too.

We'd better agree to differ then, because we shall never agree.

[JeremySmith]

A great conversation between two gentlemen posters that I have much respect for..

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by strider

We'd better agree to differ then, because we shall never agree.

However I think we may be able to agree that the decline of Williams is a very sad thing to watch unfold.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

A great conversation between two gentlemen posters that I have much respect for..

Originally Posted by davyboy

However I think we may be able to agree that the decline of Williams is a very sad thing to watch unfold.

I agree...

[strider]

Originally Posted by davyboy

However I think we may be able to agree that the decline of Williams is a very sad thing to watch unfold.

Yes, I'd certainly agree with that. For as long as I can remember Team Willy has been one of my favourites.

[bella]

i guess williams is a symbol of the classic old school vs new school approach clash that we see the whole way through motorsport. similar to the way you get teams set up around an engineer or two and teams set up (or expanding) with management and commercial interests first in other formulae.