Manufactured Competition is it Good for the Sport?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

First of all, I did not ask you.

Secondly, I have read/watched a number of articles/documentries and it's been alluded that this was the case.

Thirdly, Mike Hawthorne, a world champ, won few races and isn't held in the same esteem as Stirling Moss who, as you know, won many races in and out of F1, but no title (even taking into account Hawthorne died decades ago and Moss is still present).

Fourthly, slightly connected to point two, back in the day, as John Turner may confirm, within the GP Motorbike racing community, apparently winning the Isle of Man TT, despite it being part of the world championship, received more credibilty and praise than winning the world title (similiar to saying a GP win at the Nurburging is better than winning the world title). There may have been a correlation.

Fifthly, the world, as far as I'm aware, was as much bigger place then as it is now, and as far as communities are concerned, events that occurred outside your own community, or country, wasn't as significant as what happened within your community/country. Couldn't take pot shots at someone from another country then, as you can do over the internet now.

And lastly, if something confuses you, ask a question for clarification, otherwise don't be so smug.

records some time.
1) Posted on a public forum.
2)
3) Compare Moss' and Hawthorne's.
4) So important many of the riders refused to enter and later dropped from championship.
5) F1 has pretty well always been multi-national, so no difference other than wider reach.
Who is taking pot shots?

The put downs with Phwoar, dinosaur etc. left no confusion, and I am neither complacent or indifferent to the implied put down of John's post.
He made valid points and deserves respect. Feel free to disagree with him, but the tone of the post was poor and disrespectful.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

First of all, I did not ask you.

Then don't post a public message on a public forum.

Are you Jack Brabham or Alan Jones btw?

[Bononi]

Ok, guys. I'm closing this thread and giving warnings/infractions if it continues in this direction. Let's tone down and stick to the subject.

formerf1champ, I advise you to read our rules, Attack the post, not the poster and act accordingly, next time will be an infraction.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by phoenix

I am quoting you, not to argue against you, but to ask the question:

How many times this year have we seen a driver overtake using the DRS only to be re-passed a lap later? Not that many times, in my recollection.

The DRS seems to allow faster car/driver combinations to pass slower driver/car combinations. Isn't that what Grand Prix Racing should be about?

Or should it be about slower driver/car combinations frustrating faster driver/car combinations (and the spectator) for lap after lap - or indeed the duration of a Grand Prix?

I agree completely and it was the point I was trying to make and even when a car does manage to squeeze ahead due to better gearing such as the Mercedes in spa and Monza, it often does not last.

[John Turner]

Kind of one or two of you to come to my defence. I was actually vaguely amused by the initial response since I accept entirely that I am (relatively!) old and took it in that spirit! However, maybe, I'm also being naive!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Kind of one or two of you to come to my defence. I was actually vaguely amused by the initial response since I accept entirely that I am (relatively!) old and took it in that spirit! However, maybe, I'm also being naive!

If you have loved F1 since the the 50s, then you bring a lot of depth and perspective to the forum.
Hope to read your posts for a long time to come!

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Yes, 1958 was when Hawthorn won the Championship. The irony is that he only won a single GP that year, whilst Moss won 4, and Tony Brooks, 3. After that year, Moss said that he never again attached quite the same level of importance to the Championship, and you could hardly blame him, but 'yes', on the whole it was regarded as important but to a smaller audience. True to say, I guess, that certain GP wins (Monaco, Nurburgring, Spa) were regarded as more important than others, rather as some are today, although not sure whether wins in them had higher kudos than the WDC.

Regardless of how my post may have come across, thank you for a considered and insightful response.

[John Turner]

No problem!