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Old 11 Oct 2011, 05:23 (Ref:2969038)   #51
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Kempi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKempi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If you were Jense you would have done exactly the same thing Jense did. Remember: Jenson needed to win every remaining race. You can't do that if you are taken out at the first corner of the first of these races.
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Old 11 Oct 2011, 09:52 (Ref:2969158)   #52
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if i was jense, i wouldn't have moved an inch on the start, let seb hit me. shows him not to do something like that again, and not everyone will concede.
With 22 cars screaming up behind them at very close proximity, at over 100mph, I think the start is not the time or place to teach him such a lesson.
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Old 11 Oct 2011, 12:35 (Ref:2969263)   #53
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I don't believe Vettel when he says he didn't see Button at the start. If he was just covering Hamilton, why did he move so far to the right and then sweep back left to take up his line? Naughty driving and one day that might bite him.

Also, it's just plain dangerous, so why is this stuff allowed? Or is it okay because it's "one move"? (Vettel had two moves).
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Old 11 Oct 2011, 14:08 (Ref:2969322)   #54
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Why the hell did Red Bull tell Webber to hold station behind Vettel? He'd won the championship for crying out loud. He really is a number 2 driver, as is Massa. McLaren- the last respectable top racing team.
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Old 11 Oct 2011, 14:25 (Ref:2969330)   #55
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"That's how we're racing then". Looking forward to seeing what happens if Vettel tries that again. He may not win 7 championships, but he's got something of the old Schumacher spirit.
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Old 11 Oct 2011, 15:42 (Ref:2969372)   #56
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fourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Why the hell did Red Bull tell Webber to hold station behind Vettel? He'd won the championship for crying out loud. He really is a number 2 driver, as is Massa. McLaren- the last respectable top racing team.
I agree with the point that I'd much rather the team had taken a sporting approach and allowed them to race I don't believe for one second Horner cared in which order the cars finished; what he cared very much about was collecting the WDC for a red bull driver, something which would have been delayed until Korea If his drivers had run into each other.
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Old 11 Oct 2011, 15:43 (Ref:2969373)   #57
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Why the hell did Red Bull tell Webber to hold station behind Vettel? He'd won the championship for crying out loud.
Keeps Vettel on a podium, and so can celebrate his title in public. Then it places their WDC in the post-race press conference where the focus can be drawn from other teams.

All round a much better situation for the public, press and drivers, where by concentrating on the top three, they are seeing the race winner and championship winner simultaneously.
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Old 11 Oct 2011, 16:05 (Ref:2969382)   #58
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I am as angry about that as I was about Force India making Sutil let Di Resta past I'm Singapore.
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Old 11 Oct 2011, 20:38 (Ref:2969511)   #59
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I am as angry about that as I was about Force India making Sutil let Di Resta past I'm Singapore.
Knowing your feelings Adam, I'm sure that was not very angry.

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Keeps Vettel on a podium, and so can celebrate his title in public. Then it places their WDC in the post-race press conference where the focus can be drawn from other teams.

All round a much better situation for the public, press and drivers, where by concentrating on the top three, they are seeing the race winner and championship winner simultaneously.
I appreciate that but sometimes we should not control everything in life. Me being a multi-millionaire would be a much better situation for my personal life, but I'm not about to rob a few banks to achieve it.

Re: the Force India Singapore situation you mentioned Adam, I didn't disagree with that as such because they were making 2 different strategies work there. The end of the Japanese Grand Prix was after the last pitstops and was (or should have been) a straight fight. Anyway, Red Bull are perhaps slowly knocking the fight out of Webber, thus making him a more natural number 2 driver, so they won't have to instigate so many orders now.
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Old 11 Oct 2011, 20:45 (Ref:2969516)   #60
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You've got me there

You're right these are different situations.
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 04:40 (Ref:2969658)   #61
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I don't know if it was mentioned here but on the last lap Perez screamed on the radio to his crew " I am losing power, I am losing power " a joke to his crew but they being Swiss didn't take it to kindly.
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 08:50 (Ref:2969762)   #62
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Got any link to any more info about that, Peralta?
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 11:42 (Ref:2969850)   #63
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I hope to see that on the formula1.com race video.

Edit- Found this on Checo's Twitter:

Los que me preguntan de la broma a mi equipo.. En la ultima vuelta les dije que ya no tenia motor que tenia que parar. No les gusto mucho.

Let me translate that for you:

Those who were asking me about the joke I had with my team.. On the last lap I told them that I no longer had any power from the engine and I had to stop. They didn't like that a lot.

http://twitter.com/#!/checoperez17

Last edited by Born Racer; 12 Oct 2011 at 11:50.
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 12:18 (Ref:2969876)   #64
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Why the hell did Red Bull tell Webber to hold station behind Vettel? He'd won the championship for crying out loud. He really is a number 2 driver, as is Massa. McLaren- the last respectable top racing team.
Really, they lost that tag back in 1997.
Jerez 97:
"Errr, David, could you move out of the way, Mika really needs to win one. Williams have agreed to let you both by, be a good lad."

Melbourne 98:
" Hello David? Yes, Mika screwed up coming in to the pits, we need you to let him by again. Don't worry, he'll repay the favour soon. Good lad!"

I don't think Heikki would agree either considering some of the calls whilst he was there.
Let me see,
Hockenheim 08, "Heikki, Lewis is faster than you"
Hockenheim 10, "Felipe, Alonso is faster than you"

Spot the difference? Ferrari is a sinister organisation, aren't they??
Then again, if respectability is the watchword, which court decided that Mclaren should be fined $100,000,000 for industrial espionage?
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 12:22 (Ref:2969879)   #65
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I don't think Heikki would agree either considering some of the calls whilst he was there.
Let me see,
Hockenheim 08, "Heikki, Lewis is faster than you"
Hockenheim 10, "Felipe, Alonso is faster than you"
It helped that Lewis actually was way faster than him.

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which court decided that Mclaren should be fined $100,000,000 for industrial espionage?
That of Max Rufus Mosley. Those were corrupt days. McLaren's industrial espionage was nothing that hadn't been seen within other teams. Even Renault got away with the same crime the same year.
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 14:55 (Ref:2969949)   #66
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I don't know if it was mentioned here but on the last lap Perez screamed on the radio to his crew " I am losing power, I am losing power " a joke to his crew but they being Swiss didn't take it to kindly.
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Got any link to any more info about that, Peralta?
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I hope to see that on the formula1.com race video.

Edit- Found this on Checo's Twitter:

Los que me preguntan de la broma a mi equipo.. En la ultima vuelta les dije que ya no tenia motor que tenia que parar. No les gusto mucho.

Let me translate that for you:

Those who were asking me about the joke I had with my team.. On the last lap I told them that I no longer had any power from the engine and I had to stop. They didn't like that a lot.

http://twitter.com/#!/checoperez17
What kind of joke is that after all ?
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 17:15 (Ref:2970015)   #67
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I rather like it Bon. It seems like the kind of thing they would've done in the 70s when sex was safe and motor racing was dangerous. Besides, after a brief scare checking lots of 'parameters' and sensors, I'm sure the team soon cottoned on to the fact it was a joke. It might not be a work of great wit; more of a practical joke.
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 18:41 (Ref:2970060)   #68
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That of Max Rufus Mosley. Those were corrupt days. McLaren's industrial espionage was nothing that hadn't been seen within other teams. Even Renault got away with the same crime the same year.
The difference between Renault and Mclaren was Renault admitted to wrong doing immediately. Sadly, Ron Dennis, arrogantly stated that Mclaren were whiter than white and to watch his face subsequently in interviews, as the full story came to light, was actually saddening.
I don't like Ron and his mannerisms, sorry Ron-speak, but I don't doubt he has only raced with integrity and to learn that his team had acted in a corrupt manner clearly hurt him intensely.
Regarding espionage seen in other teams, are we talking cross-transfer of information as engineers move team, or actual secret 780 page files given to a rival engineer?
I doubt any court of law would agree with you over Rufus..
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 20:12 (Ref:2970108)   #69
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I doubt any court of law would agree with you over Rufus..
He is a very shrewd legal operator. This wasn't a normal court of law though. This was Max's FIA court.

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The difference between Renault and Mclaren was Renault admitted to wrong doing immediately.
That shouldn't mean such a discrepancy in punishment though, i.e. pretty much a non-punishment in Renault's case and a humungous monetary fine in McLaren's.

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Sadly, Ron Dennis, arrogantly stated that Mclaren were whiter than white and to watch his face subsequently in interviews, as the full story came to light, was actually saddening.
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I don't like Ron and his mannerisms, sorry Ron-speak, but I don't doubt he has only raced with integrity and to learn that his team had acted in a corrupt manner clearly hurt him intensely.
I was unsure if I'd understand these two quotes precisely, because at first I read a contradiction in them. Do you mean that Ron presumed McLaren were whiter than white, or that he knew they weren't but claimed they were? We can only believe him or not that he believed things were not as bad as they were. If it's the former, it was naivety on his part, but I don't view that as arrogance.
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 20:18 (Ref:2970109)   #70
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where is this week F1 thread? there is another race on this weekend
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Old 12 Oct 2011, 20:48 (Ref:2970123)   #71
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I take the hint. 2007 is old ground.

frostie usually does one around Wednesday or Thursday before the GP, so perhaps it's not finished yet.
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Old 13 Oct 2011, 09:14 (Ref:2970351)   #72
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That shouldn't mean such a discrepancy in punishment though, i.e. pretty much a non-punishment in Renault's case and a humungous monetary fine in McLaren's.
In any court of law, whether for theft or manslaughter/ murder etc, the judge gives different sentences if someone saves court time by admitting guilt rather than protesting innocence.

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I was unsure if I'd understand these two quotes precisely, because at first I read a contradiction in them. Do you mean that Ron presumed McLaren were whiter than white, or that he knew they weren't but claimed they were? We can only believe him or not that he believed things were not as bad as they were. If it's the former, it was naivety on his part, but I don't view that as arrogance.
I meant that Ron assumed his normal defence of his team, naturally, believing that they were whiter than white. He has always been an arrogant individual, remember the "we make history, you just report it quote".
But I agree, he was naive believing that a team of 1,000 people all share his integrity and standards, he was actually stunned by revelations. For the first time ever, I felt sorry for him.
Alan Henry, wrote a piece speaking about Ron and Mclaren stating the whole situation.
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Old 13 Oct 2011, 12:10 (Ref:2970455)   #73
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I rather like it Bon. It seems like the kind of thing they would've done in the 70s when sex was safe and motor racing was dangerous. Besides, after a brief scare checking lots of 'parameters' and sensors, I'm sure the team soon cottoned on to the fact it was a joke. It might not be a work of great wit; more of a practical joke.
Now you made me laugh !
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