The Future of North American Sports Car racing

[aeroehl]

I have always though that the two series would be able to coexist in the North American market. Grand Am has always been propped up by NASCAR and its sponsors, and the ALMS has always been driven by manufacturer involvement. Both series have marque events. It has always seemed that the ALMS has had the sports car fan base and Grand Am just keeps going because NASCAR keeps pouring money into it. In today's world things have changed. The car market and housing market tanked (we had a lot of real estate money in the ALMS) with the recent recession destroying the ALMS field and NASCAR seems to be losing sponsorship and popularity. Will both series survive. Would the ALMS consider buy our Grand Am or vice versa. Will the fans be left with nothing? After the markets begin to recover, will the fields and manufacturers come back to the sport we all love? I am beginning to think that this continent is just not big enough for the both of them.

[mark_l]

I think ALMS will win out, because of manufacturer involvement, the old adage of "win on sunday, sell on monday" still exists to a degree. If you are already looking to buy a Corvette, for example, and you see it winning on a sunday that might convince you to buy into the brand.

NASCAR is a series with many levels (Sprint, National, Trucks) and these core championships will be looked after when money is tight, as popularity and sponsors are in decline. Grand Am will be cut from the tree and left to wither.

I would rather watch an ALMS race than a Grand Am race.

[MJ_N_09]

Grand Am, I think will either be sold off to someone else, or be run by everyone's favorite monopoly until it (GA) goes chapter 7 or 11....whatever it is.

[mountainstar]

I can't see the ALMS buying Grand Am as it doesn't really have any assets there it needs.

I think Nascar is starting to see what happens when you get too many fingers in too many pies like sportscar racing and motorcycle racing and you start to ignore your core product.

For a number of years both series seemed to coexist just fine. Obviously the economy has screwed up a lot of things for everyone. Personally I like the ALMS model of business better so I hope the pendulum continues to swing in that direction.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I can't see the ALMS buying Grand Am as it doesn't really have any assets there it needs.

I can't imagine why ALMS would want to own Grand Am. There seems to be very little interest among the ALMS fan base for Grand Am style racing.

DK

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by dxk1

I can't imagine why ALMS would want to own Grand Am. There seems to be very little interest among the ALMS fan base for Grand Am style racing.

DK

Buy grand am then kill it off

[Speed-King]

Well, if buying Grand Am included the right to run the 24hours at Daytona, it would be quite an asset and Koni Challenge is no series to sneeze about either...

I don't see that happening, though. Grand Am/NASCAR/ISC say that the current LMPs are not safe enough to run at the oval parts of Daytona - and hence they are not pretty keen on having these cars race there, the last thing they need is a fatal accident at one of their venues.

The one thing I could see - not very probable either, but perhaps possible under extremely bad circumstances for both series - is that the owners of both series team up to form a new sanctioning body and to write a ruleset that is on a middle ground between the current ACO-rules and the GA-rules. That would at least allow both parties to save their face, which is probably an important factor in the whole sportscar split.

Maybe not the best example, but something comparable happened in Belgium this year, with the organizers of two smaller series, that had been rivals before, teamed up to take over the floundering Belgian GT-series.

[Jonerz]

I thought it was mainly Roger Edmonson, as the result of personal experiences, that was opposed to LMP's (driver died at Phoenix in 2001 IIRC). Not sure how NASCAR would react to modern LMPs and the major manufacturers and world-wide interest they would bring to Daytona.

Koni Challenge is quite the series, it can be agreed upon by the most hardcore of IMSA fans as a great racing series and would be an asset in IMSA's article. However, the price would have to be very low for Panoz Motorsports Group to buy Grand-Am right now as there is little to no cash floating around.

Either Grand-Am will open up and become increasingly more like IMSA or the American Le Mans Series will win out, Americans don't care for contrived racing - or at least they respond better to good honest racing.

Chris

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Either Grand-Am will open up and become increasingly more like IMSA or the American Le Mans Series will win out, Americans don't care for contrived racing - or at least they respond better to good honest racing.

Chris

Ummm...what? NASCAR? You have noticed its all-encompassing popularity, paralleled only by its all-encompassing contrived nature, right!?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Well, if buying Grand Am included the right to run the 24hours at Daytona, it would be quite an asset and Koni Challenge is no series to sneeze about either...

I doubt any purchase of Grand Am would include rights to races.

In any case, I've never been a big fan of Daytona 24hrs. I've always had a take or leave it feeling about it. ALMS has existed without it for years and certainly will do so in the future.

Koni Challenge has started to dry up itself and while interesting I don't know if it would be necessary for the ALMS to purchase it. Assuming that hypothetical came true I'd rather see the ALMS invest in it's own product rather than buying another series which just requires more manpower and resources to run.

Mostly I think the right thing for the ALMS is to do what it does best and not worry about whatever happens to Grand Am. Which is pretty much what is has done anyways.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Either Grand-Am will open up and become increasingly more like IMSA or the American Le Mans Series will win out, Americans don't care for contrived racing - or at least they respond better to good honest racing.

Chris

I think you are correct, but these are all opinions.
I do not think it is a matter of IMSA winning over GARRA, it is a matter of survival for both.
The IMSA is no better off than GARRA, but has people running it who see sports car racing, at least in part, in the way it was viewed during its haydays decades ago.

GARRA still has Daytona 24 hrs, which is the only U.S. road race that ever had true international fame a prestige. The France boys know they had the gem, but hopefully even they will realize that a cracked diamond is worth less than a unblemished gem.

[mz2k]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

GARRA still has Daytona 24 hrs, which is the only U.S. road race that ever had true international fame a prestige. The France boys know they had the gem, but hopefully even they will realize that a cracked diamond is worth less than a unblemished gem.

That was true when it had some relevance to the international sports car scene (i.e., Le Mans). It doesn't have that now.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by cmk

Ummm...what? NASCAR? You have noticed its all-encompassing popularity, paralleled only by its all-encompassing contrived nature, right!?

NASCAR does mean racing to the general public in the U.S. right now, but at very best it has plateued, if it is not falling apart. NASCAR, at its peak, and into its great boom (caused by a power vacuum with IMSA and open-wheel being dead and dying) was good honest racing. Keep in mind its been only the last ten years that we've seen NASCAR fall apart by losing focus of what it was all about - the racing.

Chris

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

NASCAR does mean racing to the general public in the U.S. right now, but at very best it has plateued, if it is not falling apart. NASCAR, at its peak, and into its great boom (caused by a power vacuum with IMSA and open-wheel being dead and dying) was good honest racing. Keep in mind its been only the last ten years that we've seen NASCAR fall apart by losing focus of what it was all about - the racing.

Chris

I remember in business school, the business theory was EXPAND, EXPAND, EXPAND, but I always said(in much conflict with my professors) why not sometimes just do something well and for a good market. Evidence shows often when businesses expand so much they loose sight of what made them great to begin with.

And much I feel it is with Nascar. Actually the first race weekend I ever went to was a Nascar race and I did follow it somewhat. But now it is almost like a phony parody of once was an interesting series.

I still believe there are room for other motorsports out there that aren't contrived and over PR'ed. Sports car racing if done right can fill a part of that niche. And I think the ALMS is part way there.

[Purist]

You know all isn't well with NASCAR when they can't sell-out the Brickyard. Also, they're ratings have been falling, and I can't help but think that being off of network television (NBC, ABC, FOX) for basically three months (the summer months to boot) has hurt them noticeably.

[italiastraps]

Future….Maybe its time for IMSA to break with the ACO and set its own stable rules for an American series? If Grand-Am does go under, I’m sure at least some of the teams would come to IMSA and make the grid fatter. IMSA would be in a great position with manufacturers as the de facto sportscar series in the US, the biggest car market.

After looking at the 2011 ACO rules and the recent situation in Grand-Am, I wonder how IMSA/ALMS will choose to move ahead? Rules changes (and the economy) drove off some of the ALMS factory P teams this year because they could no longer win overall. It would be great if they could get them back. ALMS racing is at its best when a number of quality prototypes are in contention for the overall win.

Remember when ALMS had the “For the Fans” motto? Bring it back! They seem to have lost the plot a bit with the 4 class system (with too few cars in each class) and the Green X challenge, etc.

[mz2k]

Originally Posted by italiastraps

Future….Maybe its time for IMSA to break with the ACO and set its own stable rules for an American series? If Grand-Am does go under, I’m sure at least some of the teams would come to IMSA and make the grid fatter. IMSA would be in a great position with manufacturers as the de facto sportscar series in the US, the biggest car market.

How would that be any different from Grand Am? And they won't have the ISC/NASCAR connection to prop up the series.

[Speed-King]

From Mariantic:

Neither LM series in full for Audi in 2010 - Autosport print edn

Next year might be the worst in NA sportscar racing since Andy Evans...

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

From Mariantic:


Next year might be the worst in NA sportscar racing since Andy Evans...

We'll see how the winter goes on the economy side of things.

Everything is cyclical so I'm not worried. Next year may not be great, but there will still be racing.

[Silver 3]

Can someone do an outline of the different series for Sports/GT cars in USA.
The prototype cars are sort of clear but can you outline like this using two makes ( Corvette & Porsche) that can fit many places. Can you show all the way down the system and quote model types.Could you list approx best lap times at say a circuit they may all use ?( Road Atlanta?)
EG ALMS -- GT1 Corvette C6R Circuit? /Lap Time?
-- GT2 Corvette C6R
-- GT2 Porsche RSR 997
Grand Am ?????
Speed GT ?????
Porsche Challenge ????
Trans Am??
Other places either of these makes can race?
TIA

[mz2k]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Can someone do an outline of the different series for Sports/GT cars in USA.
The prototype cars are sort of clear but can you outline like this using two makes ( Corvette & Porsche) that can fit many places. Can you show all the way down the system and quote model types.Could you list approx best lap times at say a circuit they may all use ?( Road Atlanta?)
EG ALMS -- GT1 Corvette C6R Circuit? /Lap Time?
-- GT2 Corvette C6R
-- GT2 Porsche RSR 997
Grand Am ?????
Speed GT ?????
Porsche Challenge ????
Trans Am??
Other places either of these makes can race?
TIA

Speed GT pole for this weekend's race at RA is 1:26.521 (105.685 mph).

Patron GT Challenge ran race one yesterday but I couldn't find lap times. My guess is that their lap times would be comparable to Speed GT.

Speed Touring pole is 1:34.695 (96.562 mph).

[dangerousdave79]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Can someone do an outline of the different series for Sports/GT cars in USA.
The prototype cars are sort of clear but can you outline like this using two makes ( Corvette & Porsche) that can fit many places. Can you show all the way down the system and quote model types.Could you list approx best lap times at say a circuit they may all use ?( Road Atlanta?)
EG ALMS -- GT1 Corvette C6R Circuit? /Lap Time?
-- GT2 Corvette C6R
-- GT2 Porsche RSR 997
Grand Am ?????
Speed GT ?????
Porsche Challenge ????
Trans Am??
Other places either of these makes can race?
TIA

Mid-Ohio
Fastest Laps (Fastest to Slowest)

ALMS P2 Acura ARX-01B 1:07.969 (2008)
ALMS P1 Audi R10 TDI 1:08.357 (2008)
ALMS P1 Acura ARX-02a 1:09.443 (2009)
ALMS P2 Acura ARX-01B 1:10.464 (2009)
ALMS GT1 C6.R Corvette 1:18.068 (2008)
GA DP Lexus Riley 1:18.439 (2009)
ALMS GT2 F430 Ferrari 1:20.025 (2008)
ALMS GT2 BMW E92 M3 1:21.969 (2009)
GA GT GT3 Cup 1:25.257 (2009)
ALMS GTC 911 GT3 Cup 1:27.320 (2009)
WC GT Mustang Cobra 1:28.127 (2009)
WC TC Mazda6 1:36.016 (2009)

[mz2k]

Originally Posted by dangerousdave79

Mid-Ohio
WC GT Mustang Cobra 1:28.127 (2009)
WC TC Mazda6 1:36.016 (2009)

The Speed World Challenge site has the following for this year's (2009) MO qualifying:

GT Mustang Cobra 1:26.497
TC Mazda6 1:34.135

[Tim Northcutt]

Scott Atherton delivered his "State of the Series" address at Petit this morning.

The "big" news?

The 2010 schedule (lost St. Pete & added 2 hrs to Laguna to make it six hrs. in May, plus other date shifts) and Drayson Racing will be full-time in LMP class next year.

If that is their "news," then the Series is in Deep, Deep Yogurt, gang!!!!

[aeroehl]

probably a lot to still be ironed out in the off season. Drayson in P1 is good news though.