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Old 30 Nov 2017, 05:49 (Ref:3784243)   #211
crmalcolm
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Originally Posted by ASCII Man View Post
It's all about Fiat, you do know Ferrari and Alfa Romeo are both owned by Fiat, right? (don't mean it in a patronizing manner, btw)
Actually, I thought the situation was different as of 2016.
Only going off Wikipedia information, the details given are that as part of the FIAT reorganisation, FIAT Chrysler Automobile (FCA) broke off ownership of Ferrari.

'The separation began in October 2015 with a restructuring that established Ferrari N.V. (a company incorporated in the Netherlands) as the new holding company of the Ferrari group and the subsequent sale by FCA of 10% of the shares in an IPO and concurrent listing of common shares on the New York Stock Exchange. Through the remaining steps of the separation, FCA's interest in Ferrari's business was distributed to shareholders of FCA, with 10% continuing to be owned by Piero Ferrari. The spin-off was completed on 3 January 2016.'


I understand that Marchione is the CEO of both Ferrari and FCA, and that there may be a lot of common shareholders, but legally they are two separate companies with entirely different ownership.

How that affects the topic of this thread, I am unsure. I would imagine though that owners of FCA shares (and subsequently those with a stake in Alfa-Romeo-Sauber) are not by default automatically concerned with Ferrari's own performance.
Alfa-Romeo-Sauber may however be Marchione's foothold in F1 though if he goes ahead with the threat to take Ferrari elsewhere. And as a title sponsor, without actually supplying much in the way of components, it makes sense for Alfa-Romeo.
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Old 30 Nov 2017, 08:23 (Ref:3784263)   #212
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Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker View Post
A little simplistic, Mike, bearing in mind that the Agnelli family essentially own most of FIAT (only fair, since they founded it), and most of the Ferrari shares went to Fiat shareholders.......

https://jalopnik.com/who-will-contro...now-1652197657
Richard, don't forget that that article was written in 2014, and included a lot of speculation.

Today, the Agnelli family's holding through their investment vehicle is down to 25.8% of Ferrari NV Race. They have been selling off their shares very gently since the IPO from the original, or so I believe, 33%.

Life's too short to get into more delving, and anyway, who knows who really owns all the shares when a lot of them are held by nominees on behalf of the beneficial owners.
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Old 7 Dec 2017, 16:43 (Ref:3785683)   #213
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In addition to Alfa Romeo-Sauber it seems that now we could also have Maserati-Haas next year. All cars with Ferrari engines.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/maserat...to-formula-one

My question is:
How different or how similar could this Alfa Romeo-Sauber or Maserati-Haas be on the Ferrari SF18-H?
How far do the regulations allow them to get closer?
6 Ferraris in the grid could be very useful to subtract points to Hamilton on the tracks that the Ferrari is competitive as it happened several times this year.
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Old 13 Dec 2017, 04:05 (Ref:3786743)   #214
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In that mood, F1 is copying MotoGP. Despite each team hast to build their own chassis, is the engine manufacturer works team and the engine manufacturer satellite teams.
Ferrari, with the Sauber-Alfa and Haas-Maserati is just copying RBR with Toro Rosso or Honda with Super Aguri.
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Old 13 Dec 2017, 07:27 (Ref:3786769)   #215
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Originally Posted by Mekola View Post
In that mood, F1 is copying MotoGP. Despite each team hast to build their own chassis, is the engine manufacturer works team and the engine manufacturer satellite teams.
Ferrari, with the Sauber-Alfa and Haas-Maserati is just copying RBR with Toro Rosso or Honda with Super Aguri.
Is this Ferrari trying to muddy the waters so that they can provide substandard power units to satellite teams in direct contradiction to the FIA edict that all PUs must be equal in all respects!
All out power units are identical, but these are those of other manufacturers, and they don't carry the premium price of the Ferrari units.
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Old 13 Dec 2017, 12:11 (Ref:3786812)   #216
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Is this Ferrari trying to muddy the waters so that they can provide substandard power units to satellite teams in direct contradiction to the FIA edict that all PUs must be equal in all respects!
All out power units are identical, but these are those of other manufacturers, and they don't carry the premium price of the Ferrari units.
The PUs will not change their denomination, they will continue to be called Ferrari.
Besides, what does Ferrari win with this?
There were already 2 Sauber and 2 Haas this year that were crawling on the track and this situation did not serve to Ferrari in this way.
Ferrari need a lot of competitive cars in the way to subtract points Hamilton in the tracks where the Ferrari goes very well.
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Old 14 Dec 2017, 22:33 (Ref:3787127)   #217
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I am far from sure that it will serve Maserati well to re-enter F1 by moving into what seems to be a third-rate (or at least a rather unproven) team.
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Old 15 Dec 2017, 04:46 (Ref:3787157)   #218
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I am far from sure that it will serve Maserati well to re-enter F1 by moving into what seems to be a third-rate (or at least a rather unproven) team.
It may however serve the interests of Ferrari to have the votes of three engine manufacturers in there pocket if that is what the next engine supply deal and specifications are based on. Given that the FIA is just gagging to bring more engine / auto manufacturers into F1.

First time badge engineering has ever been used in the motor industry.
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Old 15 Dec 2017, 09:57 (Ref:3787199)   #219
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I am far from sure that it will serve Maserati well to re-enter F1 by moving into what seems to be a third-rate (or at least a rather unproven) team.
You would have imagined that with Haas being American coupled with Liberty's aim to have more US races, that FCA would have out Chrysler on the cars?
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Old 15 Dec 2017, 10:53 (Ref:3787215)   #220
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You would have imagined that with Haas being American coupled with Liberty's aim to have more US races, that FCA would have out Chrysler on the cars?
I can’t imagine that FCA would focus just on the American market and pick one of the US brands. If the US was F1 crazy it might make sense, but we are not. So it would be a wasted marketing opportunity when correctly viewed as a global series. Also, IMHO, there is not a natural US centric brand that is performance centric in the list of FCA brands. Chrysler just puts the SRT label on any product that is a performance version regardless of brand (Jeep, Dodge, etc.)

However it might be hilarious to have the Ferrari rebadged as a Jeep!

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Old 16 Dec 2017, 12:01 (Ref:3787451)   #221
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Putting out an American brand would be a wasted marketing opportunity when viewed as a global series, so lets have yet another Italian brand? That doesn't really make sense...
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Old 16 Dec 2017, 16:12 (Ref:3787499)   #222
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First time badge engineering has ever been used in the motor industry.
Sarcasm, or are you forgetting TAG Heuer?
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Old 16 Dec 2017, 16:44 (Ref:3787510)   #223
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Im pretty sure it is sarcasm.... well before Tag Heuer we had Ford badged Cosworth DFVs, plus countless cases of badge engineering around the world in road cars.
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Old 16 Dec 2017, 20:12 (Ref:3787539)   #224
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Im pretty sure it is sarcasm.... well before Tag Heuer we had Ford badged Cosworth DFVs, plus countless cases of badge engineering around the world in road cars.
The DFV was a bit more than just a re-badging exercise. When Colin Chapman approached Keith Duckworth and Mike Costin to produce a 3 litre F1 engine, they needed development budget of £100,000, so Chapman went to Ford, with whom he had previously worked when producing the Lotus Cortina.
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Old 17 Dec 2017, 11:37 (Ref:3787615)   #225
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And later we had Mugen Honda
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