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Old 2 Aug 2017, 16:06 (Ref:3756967)   #46
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Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Sincerely hope not. That said isn't it sad that someone with as little practice as he has had, can drive one of these cars competitively? Just demonstrates howw dumbed down Formula 1 is these days.
Or maybe how good Kubica might still be?

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Old 2 Aug 2017, 16:10 (Ref:3756968)   #47
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Not really, the rookies have been poutting in some impressive times too.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 18:16 (Ref:3756983)   #48
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Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Sincerely hope not. That said isn't it sad that someone with as little practice as he has had, can drive one of these cars competitively? Just demonstrates howw dumbed down Formula 1 is these days.
I hope this is said in jest. The cars are way more complicated than they have ever been. When similar systems were rolled out in WEC it caused the greats like McNish and Tom K to retire. Whilst I am not saying things are better now, they certainly are not more dumbed down.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 19:42 (Ref:3756996)   #49
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Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Not really, the rookies have been poutting in some impressive times too.
McWhirter was, relatively to the normal drivers, more impressive, but it is testing.

There is more than you can do to get people 90% of the way there nowadays with the simulators etc. Also it takes a lot of schooling to just use one of these things.

Whatever, that last 1% is still bloody hard
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 00:05 (Ref:3757079)   #50
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I hope this is said in jest. The cars are way more complicated than they have ever been. When similar systems were rolled out in WEC it caused the greats like McNish and Tom K to retire. Whilst I am not saying things are better now, they certainly are not more dumbed down.
Peter was referring to the handling and car control, not the complications of the various black boxes.

The handling and vices of the cars are benign, which prevents really skilled drivers exploiting faster times available to really on the edge machinery.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 08:47 (Ref:3757144)   #51
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Is there really any evidence that these cars are too easy to drive compared to before? Or is it just more nostalgia and things were better in the old days?

Managing the electrical and hybrid systems is all part of the driving. You need to be able to multi-task and deal with those systems too.

I dunno, people keep saying F1 is too easy now. We cycle through drivers at a record rate, demand high standards instantly or your career is over. Drivers get a fraction of the testing that they used to get it...and then we say it's too easy.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 14:41 (Ref:3757209)   #52
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Is there really any evidence that these cars are too easy to drive compared to before?

Drivers get a fraction of the testing that they used to get ...and then we say it's too easy.
There's your answer.
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 08:18 (Ref:3757318)   #53
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Back on topic, has Sainz replaced Palmer for the Hungarian GP yet???


I think this thread is in need of a bit of Blue 242!
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 09:35 (Ref:3757322)   #54
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There's your answer.
So because they are allowed less testing, that's proof the car is too easy?
Everyone was in agreement that the cars are significantly hard to drive this year.

There's nothing to suggest the current cars are easy to drive, and a lot to suggest that the drivers are having to manage the car and its systems a lot more than anyone in history. I'm not saying the current drivers are the best ever, but it seems like another case of "things were better in the old days" really.

Nostalgia is heroin for old people, and I ain't got no time for that.
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 11:29 (Ref:3757327)   #55
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Up to you, I wasn't thinking Nostalgically however if you dismiss the theory then fine, but so far I've seen nothing to suggest that these cars and those since the decision to stop testing are as difficult to drive as they were previously. Likewise these testing results and those from last year are demonmstrating to anyone with an ounce of sense that to be on the pace all you need is to be good at playstations.
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 11:37 (Ref:3757329)   #56
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Up to you, I wasn't thinking Nostalgically however if you dismiss the theory then fine, but so far I've seen nothing to suggest that these cars and those since the decision to stop testing are as difficult to drive as they were previously. Likewise these testing results and those from last year are demonmstrating to anyone with an ounce of sense that to be on the pace all you need is to be good at playstations.
I don't think anyone with an ounce of sense would dismiss the simulators as playstations
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 12:32 (Ref:3757337)   #57
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Up to you, I wasn't thinking Nostalgically however if you dismiss the theory then fine, but so far I've seen nothing to suggest that these cars and those since the decision to stop testing are as difficult to drive as they were previously. Likewise these testing results and those from last year are demonmstrating to anyone with an ounce of sense that to be on the pace all you need is to be good at playstations.
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I don't think anyone with an ounce of sense would dismiss the simulators as playstations
I believe there lies the problem, it appears there is a HUGE disconnect from what fans want to see, broken cars, drivers spinning, their driver far ahead and yes wrecks (views don't lie), and what they claim to want to see, close competition and no single team dominance.

If the DRIVERS say they are harder to drive, I'm willing to go out on a limb and go with their opinion as they have this thing called i don't know ACTUAL experience in the car. Just because the older cars were for the most part temperamental and broke more often than not does not make them harder to drive. It makes them WORSE cars. It's not even an often studied phenomenon any longer, things you saw younger are always what you want things to be even if they are demonstrably worse.
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 13:05 (Ref:3757342)   #58
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Actually that is definitely not my point.

Yes the cars are harder to drive this year due to the changes. But, they aren't difficult to drive. There is a difference. And if an inexperienced driver, or a number of them, with zero miles in a particular chassis can get within a few hundredths or even a tenth of the regular driver, with only a half day of testing, then yes, there is something fundamentally wrong with the entire formula.

It's not about crashing or wanting one driver to be far ahead of the others at all.
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 14:46 (Ref:3757371)   #59
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Yes the cars are harder to drive this year due to the changes. But, they aren't difficult to drive. There is a difference. And if an inexperienced driver, or a number of them, with zero miles in a particular chassis can get within a few hundredths or even a tenth of the regular driver, with only a half day of testing, then yes, there is something fundamentally wrong with the entire formula.
Completely disagree. If it's all about making the car difficult to drive, then just make them rear wheel steering and be done with it. A racing car should never be fundamentally difficult to drive - if it is then the engineers did a very bad job, because that car is just going to crash. The hard bit in a racing car is getting the last little bit.

They may not get the miles in the chassis, but they'll have done more laps in a simulator than the race driver gets in the car. Whilst these are not perfect, they are far from Playstations. It's a bit silly to use testing as evidence for anything at all - ask Prost how that went for him.

We demand higher standards than ever in F1, we have more complicated cars than ever, we have less testing than ever, and we cycle through drivers at a record rate. And then we sit and say it's too easy based on some testing times? Seems a bit insane to me.

Palmer is another example of that. He's probably going to be dropped soon. Drivers previously got more testing over the winter than he's had driving in 18 months, but because he's not hitting marks now, he's out. F1 cycles through some very capable drivers at a depressing rate nowadays.
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Old 4 Aug 2017, 14:57 (Ref:3757372)   #60
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We agree to disagree.
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