F-Schumacher

Nuclear1080 · 13 Jun 2002, 16:07 (Ref:312772)

The german once more counted on the "big help" to win... if it wasn't for that safety-car, that came out in an unnecessary moment... but when the Toyota was in a much more dangerous position .. and they wouldn't do anything about it... also, there was no latin-american in 1st but a german... makes me sleep!!!

Red · 13 Jun 2002, 16:17 (Ref:312785)

What if there were 2 (two) latin-americans in first and second when the safety car made an appearence?

kwd · 13 Jun 2002, 20:56 (Ref:313060)

well put red

Jordi · 13 Jun 2002, 21:00 (Ref:313063)

The key is not the safety car, but the strategies at Ferrari.

Schumacher's strategy was the safer one... The two stopper for Barrichello would be reasonable with him in 10th place in the grid, but not in 3rd.

It's just what Todt said: "we can do it without nobody noticing" Not quite.

neilap · 13 Jun 2002, 21:06 (Ref:313072)

The safety car screwed everyone that was on a two stopper. I don't even think that was an issue. McNish's car was easily removed. JV's was seized.

Oh wow, I am a veteran!!

Mr V · 13 Jun 2002, 21:07 (Ref:313075)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordi
The key is not the safety car, but the strategies at Ferrari.

The two stopper for Barrichello would be reasonable with him in 10th place in the grid, but not in 3rd.

it would have been reasonable if he had have been fast enough! how many times have we seen Rubens on the faster 2 stop stratagy and only lapping slightly faster, but not fast enough than TGF and JPM and the others!

**Bononi** · 13 Jun 2002, 21:21 (Ref:313093)

If there were 2 latin americans in 1st and 2nd position...

You mean RB and JPM ?

Or RB and Bernoldi ?

Or JPM and Bernoldi ?

Gt_R · 14 Jun 2002, 01:00 (Ref:313192)

"The german once more counted on the "big help" to win..."

Doh! So its Michael's fault that JV's car siezed and cannot be removed?

Tell me how??? I think everybody sensible enough here know the safety car was the right decision. Wake up!

There is nothing wrong with Ferrari's strategy for both drivers. I've repeated it many times. With the changes done to the circuit, many teams did think about the options of a 2 stop which now becomes viable.

Quote Jordi:"The two stopper for Barrichello would be reasonable with him in 10th place in the grid, but not in 3rd."
Then how about JPM on the 2pit strategy despite in 1st on the grid? Nobody seem to say anything. Up until the safety car comes out...the strategy was working more in Rubens favour. If anything, it is Michael's abilities to keep up the pace despite a heavier load that makes it seem why a 2 stopper may be not-too-correct. See where the other one-stoppers are when the safety car comes out... If you bother to watch and think, without the safety car, Rubens/JPM would have been able to make his first pitstop and rejoin in front of Ralf/Kimi...and start closing back on Michael.

But alas, the safety car comes out. Sure enough, in Canada, safety car period should always be considered...but what everybody expected the safety car out for is not a senario like JV's... but 1)a first corner pileup 2)some cars knocking into the corners after the pit exit 3)some cars knocking into the wall after the last chicane. That is what the concerns are, and in the race, none of those happened..so what's the problem with Ferrari pitstops.

Before people start coming up with conspiracy theories and accusations, at least try to think of more logical ones.

Red · 14 Jun 2002, 03:27 (Ref:313252)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bononi
If there were 2 latin americans in 1st and 2nd position...

Just "hypothetically" Bon.... Let's imagine a Canadian GP in 2002 with 2 South Americans (not a German) leading... I mean Safety car leading and 2 South Americans charging it.

Nuclear1080 · 14 Jun 2002, 05:01 (Ref:313270)

please keep these infamous joke for yourself!!!

Red · 14 Jun 2002, 05:16 (Ref:313275)

Nuke buddy, joke? jokes? infamous?

Nuclear1080 · 14 Jun 2002, 05:26 (Ref:313278)

I've just realized some ppl write any c.r.a.p. on this forum just to increase their # post

Red · 14 Jun 2002, 05:29 (Ref:313279)

Yep, you're spot on!

Nuclear1080 · 14 Jun 2002, 05:30 (Ref:313280)

Welcome me lol

kwd · 14 Jun 2002, 05:31 (Ref:313281)

any c.r.a.p

Champ69 · 14 Jun 2002, 05:33 (Ref:313282)

I know I do.

and congradulations neilap on you promotion to vet status

ljakse · 14 Jun 2002, 09:20 (Ref:313346)

I don't believe I'm gonna say this but...

Can Michael Schumacher have a 'clean' victory ever again? Leave him alone! This one was fair&square! Safety car

Rubinho? So what?

happens.
I don't like the guy. I hate current standings. I wish Cora somehow makes him quit. But, what the hell. He is here. He is fast. He is driving possibly the best car on the grid. He doesn't have a teammate but a hired help. He's got undivided team attention. I don't like all that, but still, somtimes, he simply wins.

There, I said it.

Jordi · 14 Jun 2002, 09:50 (Ref:313362)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v

it would have been reasonable if he had have been fast enough! how many times have we seen Rubens on the faster 2 stop stratagy and only lapping slightly faster, but not fast enough than TGF and JPM and the others!

The problem is not if he's fast enough, the problem is he knows he can't win... Anyway, if Rubens had been on a one stop strategy and had passed Schumacher in the start, he would have requested to let him pass at anytime..

Glen · 14 Jun 2002, 09:55 (Ref:313365)

It's a borderline call - one or two stops. If you go for the two (Rubens, JPM) you get away quicker and it is the "naturally" faster strategy... But. You've then got to drive the wheels of the car in three frantic sprints, and you've got to be absolutely spot-on from start to finish. JPM nearly pulled it off, Rubens wasn't close - he should have been substantially ahead in the first few laps. To start with (apart from the first corner let-through) Michael was quick enough to make us wonder if Montoya was on the same fuel - and that's the flip-side of going one-stop... You've got to be good enough to make the car competitive with a seriously uncompetitive fuel-load.

Bottom line is, you couldn't win that Grand Prix without being on top form for seventy-odd laps (ok, minus the safety car laps, and even then you need to stay focussed) - and Rubens showed us what a difference there is between very, very good and world champion.

Jordi · 14 Jun 2002, 10:26 (Ref:313384)

It's not really reliable... 2 stops has rarely worked, hasn't it? It did in 1997, when the tyres were degradating, and 1998, 1999 and 2000 were hugely affected by safety car periods and/or rain ... In 1996 Hill won on one stop, 2001 Ralf, one stop again. 2002, TGF, one stop.

Red · 14 Jun 2002, 10:27 (Ref:313385)

Yeah, but on various occasions worked with 3, not 2 pitstops. The driver was different though...

And I almost forgot. In Austria both Ferraris were on 2 stops as opposed to 1 like the majority. They lapped almost the entire field. And it was a safety car on the track too.

Jordi · 14 Jun 2002, 10:33 (Ref:313393)

Red, I think we should chat or something....

When it worked on 3 stops?
Both Ferraris on two stops at Austria, OK, but who was first till the last corner?

Red · 14 Jun 2002, 10:36 (Ref:313397)

Hungariring 98 is one of my favorite races. Also, same year, Schumacher won Canadian GP using 1 extra pit-stop. (that's from memory, probably I can come with more if I do some research).

What difference does it make who was in front in Austrian GP? :confused:

Gt_R · 14 Jun 2002, 10:37 (Ref:313400)

Jordi, last year, it was better to go for a one stop at Canada. Fair...

But this year, the reason of why a 2 stopper is as probable as a 1 stopper is not based on what happen in 97 or 98, but the fact that now the track is 1) shorter, 2) the pit exit is alot quicker (hence total time lost in pit process is less.) It gives drivers a slight advantage compared to the old, thus making it viable for 2stops...

Jordi · 14 Jun 2002, 10:39 (Ref:313404)

that they were on the same strategy and Barrichello should have won. And yes, they were ahead of everyone in Austria, but the F2002 is a faster car too.

As for Canada 98, well, Schumacher used the safety car, and had a stop-go penalty because he dumped Frentzen out, I think. As there were a number of Safety car periods in 1998, I don't think it can compare to this year's situation.

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