Group A Nissan Skyline DR30 and HR31

[racer69]

I'd say it's Grice at the wheel, Win usually had an open face helmet. I think he only moved to full-face helmets after his accident in the Nissan Primera in 1993 during testing (and potentially proved very helpful in his Bathurst crash that same year in the HRT Commodore)

[Slartibartfast]

Hello there, I am new here, and am very interested in this thread, and touring cars in general. If anyone is looking for good sources on Japanese Group A, they should get hold of one of the series of books - Best 100 race in Japan.
I managed to get hold of 'Sugo 300 1987', and the coverage in it is eye opening. Japanese text though.
On a related note, EBBRO produce a small die cast model of a Reebok DR30.
But I can't find any actual photo's to confirm this. I am well aware of the HR31 GTS-R in this scheme.....

[chunterer]

Welcome to the thread and forum in general 'sbf' (nice moniker but any chance you could abbreviate it?!!)

Look forward to your contributions about touring cars and other things in future.

[ian beckett]

Sadly I think the publisher of the series of books '100 Best races' has gone bankrupt?I have had several on order from Japan but am being adviseed that it is unlikely they will be available again! Ian.

[ian beckett]

In one of those strange coincidences in life,less than 24 hours after having typed that the Japanese race magazines were now not available,the supplier informed me overnight that my order was ready to ship!!! For those interested,the company is Hobby Link Japan or HLJ.They are easy to use with English text used and the one thing I bought in the past from them was delivered safe and sound.Ian.

[Slartibartfast]

Thanks 'Chunterer' (!) :>)
You can call me JC if you want less keyboard work.....

[Slartibartfast]

Ian, I had heard about a Japanese magazine publisher going bust - but I didn't suspect it was Sanei-Shobo. I get mine from HLJ, and on their website vol. 43 of the series has just been released. The one issue I have received so far was 'backordered', and arrived after about a month. I have several other books on order, and HLJ have given no indication of there being a problem - apart from waiting for them to come into stock......
Just have patience and faith!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Thanks 'Chunterer' (!) :>)
You can call me JC if you want less keyboard work.....

No worries... JC

You should have seen what I was gonna call myself when I first joined up!!!

[Slartibartfast]

Regarding my earlier post about Sanei Shobo publications.
If anyone is trying to get these magazines, put in an order if they are 'out of stock' or 'backordered'. I did, and now I've had notification that all of the editions I wanted are on the way to me.....

[ian beckett]

and I was notified by the company yesterday that those I ordered were posted.Ian

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Interesting point. The DR30 appeared to be quite reliable and competitive cars and one would've thought Graham Goode would've tried to get his hands on one after his 180 Bluebird project. However I think it's been mentioned by likes of VIVA and ghinzani on other threads that Graham's relationship with Nissan wasn't exactly favourable after they didn't help him much with the 180 in 1984/5.

I do recall big rumours that Kent Baigent or somebody was seriously thinking of entering his DR30 in the 1986 or 87 BTCC - I guess with a view to trying to sell it?

Coming back to this thread after the 1985 JTCC thread, a thought occurs to me about the Graham Goode Bluebird. How did he come to take on the Bluebird for Group A in the first place?

As you said, there's been some comment in other threads that not much help was forthcoming from Nissan, and I'm not aware of the 180B being raced anywhere else in Group A, even where Nissan were active in the category- certainly not in Japan, or Australia, where they'd campaigned the Bluebird in Group C but chose to sit on the Group A sidelines until the Skyline project in '86.

It's odd that a car which obviously had potential in Gp A wasn't picked up by anyone else- although with the Skyline available in the 'big' class by 1985, I guess Nissan didn't really need the Bluebird in Group A.

Incidentally, whatever happened to the Bluebird? I don't think I remember it racing anywhere outside the BTCC after Kevin Eaton ran it in a number of 1987 BTCC rounds...

[Jesper OH]

KA, I currently have 7 blanks concerning 1985 A-JTCC cars, which I will return to at some point. Interesting to find out what they were.

I've seen a sales add for the Goode Bluebird, showing it to be a two door coupé, and wondering if that version of the turbo was generally available in Europe? As with the Skyline, it might explain why the Bluebird wasn't used more in Europe.
Then again, there are still a lot of group A black spots both in Europe and elsewhere, as far as I'm concerned, so who knows what might turns up.

Jesper

[chunterer]

Yes, the Goode car was a completely private entry. There was always some niggling doubts from competitors about the cars homolgation as it was never a standard sale model in Europe and there was some confusion as to whether it was in Japan either, IIRC!!

The Bluebird/180B may have shared some engine/build tricks with the Syliva though as I believe they were broadly simialr cars/engines? This may have had some bearing on how it/parts of it got homologated fairly easily.

The advent of the Skyline surely put paid to any hopes Graha had of attracting works support. If he had god knows what the car could've achieved with full development - it almost certainly would've had the Alfas Metros and quite possibly the latter Escort RST's handled.....

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes, the Goode car was a completely private entry. There was always some niggling doubts from competitors about the cars homolgation as it was never a standard sale model in Europe and there was some confusion as to whether it was in Japan either, IIRC!!

The Bluebird/180B may have shared some engine/build tricks with the Syliva though as I believe they were broadly simialr cars/engines? This may have had some bearing on how it/parts of it got homologated fairly easily.

The 2-door 180B Coupe was certainly available in the UK (funnily enough, I used to regularly see a 'one elderly lady owner from new' example in the car park across the road from where I used to work up to last year), but whether the turbo engine was is another matter....

Anyway, the reason I brushed the dust off this thread- I don't think, unless I missed it when I just re-read it, we ever established what happened to the NME Skyline HR31 after the short ETCC/BTCC campaign in 1988.

Anyway, a thread appeared on the sportscar forum (thanks to CTD) with a link to a collection of pics taken at the 'Zama vehicle storage facility' in Japan, which seems to house a part of Nissan's factory collection-
http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg...msg_id=2079707
I've seen these on another forum but had never looked through the whole lot- it's a real treasure trove of everything from 50's/60's production cars to Group C cars and theGT1 R390s- I wouldn't mind spending an hour or two wandering around this place....
Scrolling down through the pics, there's a shot of a lineup of Skylines,
including a very familiar looking red/white/blue HR31- looks as if the NME car returned to Japan

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

The 2-door 180B Coupe was certainly available in the UK.

Anyway, the reason I brushed the dust off this thread- I don't think, unless I missed it when I just re-read it, we ever established what happened to the NME Skyline HR31 after the short ETCC/BTCC campaign in 1988.

Anyway, a thread appeared on the sportscar forum (thanks to CTD) with a link to a collection of pics taken at the 'Zama vehicle storage facility' in Japan, which seems to house a part of Nissan's factory collection.

Scrolling down through the pics, there's a shot of a lineup of Skylines,
including a very familiar looking red/white/blue HR31- looks as if the NME car returned to Japan

Yes you're right on reflection there was a coupe version, quite rare!! I only really saw 4-door cars as my Uncle had one for several years!

Cracking images of that storage warehouse - crikey some of the stuff in there is steeped in motorsport history, along with some strange creations that I'm not familiar with at all (like that white/red Porsche 906/7/8 type clone!)

There's is a little glimpse of an HR31 on the right hand side of one of the shots you're right. I suspect it could well be the NME car, but I also remember the early Gibson cars having a similar livery, perhaps with more blue?

Did the NME/Marsden car do any end of season Inter-Tec races in 1988 at all? If so it may well have been left with Nissan, which would explain it, if it is the same car?

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Cracking images of that storage warehouse - crikey some of the stuff in there is steeped in motorsport history, along with some strange creations that I'm not familiar with at all (like that white/red Porsche 906/7/8 type clone!)

Off topic moment- the white/red 906 lookalike is the Prince R380-II, from 1967. A bit more info here: (3rd one down)

http://sti-club.com/mobile/thread.php?topic_id=1389

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

There's is a little glimpse of an HR31 on the right hand side of one of the shots you're right. I suspect it could well be the NME car, but I also remember the early Gibson cars having a similar livery, perhaps with more blue?

Did the NME/Marsden car do any end of season Inter-Tec races in 1988 at all? If so it may well have been left with Nissan, which would explain it, if it is the same car?

I'm not aware of the NME car racing anywhere after the last ETC outing at Nogaro- at least, not as an NME entry...

I can't find anything on the results of the '88 Fuji Inter-Tec that obviously looks like an NME entry (there's a #23 entry for Olofsson/Suzuki, but I suspect that's a regular JTCC entry as mentioned earlier in the thread)-
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...88%20Fuji.html
..or any mention of Skylines at Macau.

Trouble is, if the car went straight back to NISMO in Japan after Nogaro, it could then have been used by any of the Japanese teams at Fuji, presumably re-liveried from its' NME colours...

[PZR]

I can confirm that the NME-built Group A KHR31 Skyline is part of the 'Nissan Heritage Car Collection' housed at the old Zama plant near Yokohama.

A few years back I was lucky enough to participate in a viewing of the collection, and it really is a sight to see. It would be an even better if it were housed in a properly curated museum that was open to the general public, but that does not look to be on the cards for the forseeable future.

Nissan do send some of these cars out and about to dealerships, gallery showrooms and car shows, and some of the cars in the collection are on long-term loan to other museums and collections around Japan - so the contents of the warehouse at Zama are not the whole story. There are also a number of cars that are not fully catalogued, and/or are not on display. In actual fact the collection is growing, as owners of certain cars have been 'donating' them to the collection; a good friend of mine recently donated a PGC10 Skyline GT-R.

Nissan used to publish a booklet that catalogued a percentage of the cars in the collection, and a few years ago they went to a CD format. The latest one I have is the 2005 version, and the NME car is included in that. They also have most of the contents of the CD online at one of their sites, but I don't have a link handy ( I'll have a look for it and post it here later if I find it ). In the meantime, here's the blurb on the NME GTS-R from the CD:

"The R31, the seventh-generation Skyline, was launched on August 19, 1985. The 6-cylinder twin-cam engine, last used on the C110, was reintroduced with the R31 and together with its breakthrough HICAS 4-wheel steering system and card entry system (both world firsts), this model attracted much attention.
At launch, the R31 was available as either a 4-door sedan or a 4-door hardtop, but in May of the following year a coupe was added to the lineup. On August 21, 1987, the GTS-R - base car for Group A races - was launched as a limited-edition model (800 units). The GTR-S was a pure sports model, equipped with a Garrett high-caliber turbocharger and stainless steel exhaust manifold, increasing engine output from the GTS’s 190PS to 210PS (both net values).
The vehicle shown was a racing car manufactured by NME - Nissan Motorsports Europe, the subsidiary established in England as a European base for Nissan Motor Sports International. It was used by Allan Grice and Win Percy to compete in the 1988 European Touring Car Championship (ETCC).
At the 24-hour Spa-Francorchamps race in Belgium, one of the world’s three top endurance races, Anders Olofsson - a member of the Nissan team for the All Japan Sports Prototype Championship (JSPC) - joined Grice and Percy and the trio came in 6th overall.

Overall length / width / height
4,660/1,690/1,325mm

Wheelbase
2,615mm

Tread (front/rear)
1,460/1,465mm

Curb weight
1,160kg

Engine
RB20DET-R (6-cyl. in-line, DOHC), 2,029cc

EngineMax. power
294kW (400PS)/7,200rpm

EngineMax. torque
412Nm (42.0kgm)/6,000rpm

Transmission
5-speed, floor shift (F5D77)

Suspension (front, rear)
Strut, semi trailing-arm

Brakes
AP ventilated disc (front: 14in.; rear: 12in.)

Tires
230/660R17

Race specifications

[KA]

Originally Posted by PZR

Nissan used to publish a booklet that catalogued a percentage of the cars in the collection, and a few years ago they went to a CD format. The latest one I have is the 2005 version, and the NME car is included in that. They also have most of the contents of the CD online at one of their sites, but I don't have a link handy ( I'll have a look for it and post it here later if I find it ).

Brilliant- many thganks for confirming that. The website you mentioned is probably the one I tripped over a week or two ago while looking for something marginally related, but couldn't find again- that picture looks very familiar

[DAVID PATERSON]

I personally find car museums a little depressing. I think it's sad to see a famous race car just sitting there doing nothing. I'd love to see that car comepting nowadays.

In Australia we have a national series for genuine Group A Touring Cars, with a documented competition history from the period. This car in particular would attract a great deal of interest due to the popularity of the drivers.

[DAVID PATERSON]

An ex Gibson DR30 is currently for sale in immaculate ready to race conditon for AUD120K.

Hmmm, do i REALLY need two kidneys? Or perhaps i could sell my house and live in my car...............

[KA]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

I personally find car museums a little depressing. I think it's sad to see a famous race car just sitting there doing nothing. I'd love to see that car comepting nowadays.

In Australia we have a national series for genuine Group A Touring Cars, with a documented competition history from the period. This car in particular would attract a great deal of interest due to the popularity of the drivers.

It would certainly be nice to see some of the cars that are hidden away in manufacturers' collections out on the track occasionally- pity someone can't persuade Nissan to ship it over to Australia and give it a run...

[racer69]

Originally Posted by chunterer

but I also remember the early Gibson cars having a similar livery, perhaps with more blue?

Your right, here's the Gibson cars from (with thanks to autopics.com.au)

1988
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3...issan88pc6.jpg

1989
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/898/nissan90ve4.jpg


I'd have to check, but i believe only 3 HR31's were built and raced by the Gibson team in Australia, and all 3 are still here (2 racing in Historic Group A races)

[KA]

Comparing the pics of the Gibson cars with the shot of the NME car above, and the pic in the thread linked to a few posts back, the real giveaway is the difference in the red/blue pattern- particularly the continuation of the red and blue up the screen pillars to the roofline on the NME car- the Gibson cars were always white in this area

[KA]

An interesting thought comes to mind- Unless they've got a couple more tucked away somewhere, in a way it seems odd that the HR31 in the Nissan collection is the NME car, which had a pretty short racing career and was probably not widely known in Japan.

I'd have thought that one of the NISMO cars raced by Hasemi or Hoshino in the domestic series would have been a more obvious candidate for the museum collection. Early in the thread,

I think I asked the question whether the NME car was locally-developed by Howard Marsden's crew in the UK, or came from Japan.

Given the fact it went back to Japan at the end of the programme, does that suggest it definitely originated from NISMO in the first place, either as a kit of parts or a complete car, rather than being separately built and developed by NME?