Living with a hybrid road car

[hometune]

Anyone have experience of using a hybrid as a daily driver. I'm not interested in fuel economy or the green benefits, just what are they like to use all day long everyday as a working vehicle? My driving is spread throughout the day from 7 to 7 and mostly is in town or on A roads, Approx 15% on dual carriageway/ motorway. I,m looking mainly at a prius. Need to carry tools etc but the boot looks to be large enough, if a little shallow.

Reason for asking is that They are being heavily promoted on our company car list and the car tax bands make them a very cheap option compared to TDis that are the alternative.

[garcon]

I hate the Prius with a vengeance. Nowhere near as economical (or environmentally friendly) as all the green nutters would have you believe.

That said, it is a very good mechanical/technological set up. In normal driving, you'll barely notice any difference to a normal petrol car that's that ugly. And in stop start/heavy traffic it's alot quieter than a diesel.

Don't know anyone with a Prius (and I wouldn't speak to them if I did) but I do know someone with a Lexus RX400h - and they love it.

[Tim Falce]

I drove a Lexus R400 something or other a few weeks ago and it was the nicest car I have ever driven. It is quiet, fast, comfortable and full of toys. I just don't think they are as economical as people would have you believe, and certainly not the green icons they are made out to be, but that goes for most if not all hybrid cars.

[bella]

correct me if i'm wrong, but in stop start traffic the hybrids run on battery power? i suspect the point of these is largely to reduce pollution in the cities, where stop start traffic is causing a big problem for air quality.

but i agree entirely - calling them environmentally friendly is like saying a diesel is too - it's not true in many if not most scenarios.

[Bluebottle]

Can anyone confirm the rumours about these cars, i.e. 4x bigger carbon footprint than equivalant car or battery disposal problems etc?

[garcon]

It depends who you believe.

If you look purely at CO2 emissions when running, then they're cleaner than almost any equivalent vehicle.

However if you look at whole life, 'dust to dust' environmental impact then manufacturing and disposal requirements send them waaaaay down the list.

bella's right on the fact they run just on the battery/electric motor at very low speeds (i.e. in heavy traffic) - and this is where their economy and emissions beat the others. On the open road, modern perticulate filtered diesels are far, far better.

[hometune]

As I said at the top, don't care about green issues just like the idea of saving 70% company car tax each month. Everything else on our lists of a reasonable size is now Turbo diesel and the ones i've tried, VAG, PSA, Ford still sound like a taxi at slow speeds.

It also seems they are exempt from congestion charges.

[garcon]

Yep - if you go into the congestion charge zone it's a no-brainer (a bit like Ken).

[Bodysnatcher]

Some diesels will be exempt from the upcoming changes to what was the congestion charge in London (Feb 08). My wife has one of them. It's also only 35 quid a year road tax.

from
http://cars.uk.msn.com/greenmotoring...mentid=6436135

Free cars include... Citroen C2 1.4 HDi, Fiat Panda MultiJet, Ford Fiesta 1.4/1.6TDCi, Mitsubishi i, Peugeot 207 1.4/1.6 HDi, Renault Clio 1.5 dCi, Toyota Prius, Vauxhall Corsa 1.3 CDTi, VW Polo 1.4 TDI.

Ford is even introducing the a new Fiesta "Sportsvan" with the 1.6 turbodiesel

I have to travel inside the CC zone very occasionally, but since I'm reimbursed, I'll still use my £8 charge car

[Bodysnatcher]

Hold on, missed the edit limit, as I thought, the next car I was planning on buying is also below the magic 120g/km.

Yes I know, it's still a diesel, BMW 118 post Sept 07 model
UK gov data
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/sea...s.asp?id=19952

[hometune]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

from
http://cars.uk.msn.com/greenmotoring...mentid=6436135

Very interesting, especially since I don't think the charging zone will remain that small. Look at the Plans for trucks, they cover all london boroughs which even brings it ouside the M25 in essex.

I've found one plumber on another forum who uses a prius with tools all day and seems happy, and a sales rep who thinks its good but not exciting!

[johnh875]

I know a guy who is quite happy with his Mk1 Prius, he enjoys the economy but even more so the resulting range between fills.

[Bluebottle]

The technology in the Prius and Lexus seems to be the way to go, hopefully future developments will change the dust-to-dust carbon footprint issue with them.
Still waiting for my solar powered MPV.....

[Ellmau]

But surely the hybrids are more environmental than petrol and diesels, right?

[garcon]

Not necessarily.

In terms of emissions/fuel economy it partly depends on what kind of driving you do, and how big a vehicle you need. Some of the small diesels are more economical than a Prius, and are only slightly (if at all) higher on emissions. The more out of town driving you do, the bigger the advantage for the diesel.

Then there's whole life environmental impact. The manufacture and disposal of the batteries in a hybrid car present all kinds of environmental issues.

All of this is conveniently swept under the carpet by the green lobby though. Too complicated for them.

[steve nielsen]

My father has a Prius wich I often get to drive(since my Aygo won't be there for another 2 weeks), but I thinks it's great to drive and it also runs very economical, I was especialy sursprised by the accelaration, that electric engine has a lot of torque.

[Craig]

Where does the power to charge those batteries come from? Some dirty great coal powered power station I am guessing... wow, feel the enviromental benefits there!

[Bodysnatcher]

Ken has changed his mind on exemping the low polluters (<120g CO2/km) in what was the congestion charging zone.
everbody pays, even Pius drivers
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...led/article.do

damn

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Craig

Where does the power to charge those batteries come from? Some dirty great coal powered power station I am guessing... wow, feel the enviromental benefits there!

Nope.

Hybrids don't need plugging in to charge. The petrol engine does that when it needs to.

[Bodysnatcher]

for comparison
Prius 104g CO2/km hybrid
Civic 109g/km hybrid
Polo (Bluemotion) 99g/km diesel

before calculating dust to dust

[Craig]

I didn't realise that, Garc. Guess the fact it's so pig ugly has meant I never bothered to look into it. When are they gonna develop a 'green' car that looks like something you'd be prepared to be seen in?

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

for comparison
Prius 104g CO2/km hybrid
Civic 109g/km hybrid
Polo (Bluemotion) 99g/km diesel

before calculating dust to dust

and just to compare that:

Aygo 109g CO2/KM (1.0 petrol)
Hummer H3 346g CO2/KM (!!)

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Craig

I didn't realise that, Garc. Guess the fact it's so pig ugly has meant I never bothered to look into it. When are they gonna develop a 'green' car that looks like something you'd be prepared to be seen in?

Good question.

The Lexus LS600h looks quite nice. But that costs 85 grand. And its green credentials are, erm, somewhat relative.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Craig

I didn't realise that, Garc. Guess the fact it's so pig ugly has meant I never bothered to look into it. When are they gonna develop a 'green' car that looks like something you'd be prepared to be seen in?

The first generation was'nt to much to look at, but the 2nd generation looks pretty good i.m.h.o.

and to answer your 2nd question, here's a Toyota Hybrid sportscar prototype:

[Bluebottle]

Here's a better answer
http://www.lightningcarcompany.com/home.php